How would you change your guitar players "sound"

[chesterDjester]

Howdy all, here is a little novel for you.

I'm a guitar player in a hard rock band. Like everyone here I like to mess and fart around with my sound constantly. Usually I end up with a fantastic sound (bedroom) but when I get to rehearsal I have always killed the bass player with my own low end and frankly the sound wasn't so cool anymore. I got to thinking about how best to adjust my sound to fit the bass players low end. I mean, let the bass player do his own job, right?

The trouble has always been that the drummer is insanely loud. He has the ability to play softer but chooses not to for some reason. This has always required excessive volume from me and the bassist and of course the bass would get buried.

I ended up scaling down my rig immensely and settling on a Mesa 20/20 dynawatt into 2 1x12 cabs. This is going to force a quieter rehearsal. Previously I had a 120/120 into one or 2 4x12 cabs. Pure silliness in hind sight.

Needless to say I have much more mids and far less bottom end now. The bass player (TB member Crabby) will be heard loud and clear from now on. I mean, who the heck was I to impose on his territory anyway? What took so long to see the light? I guess I had to mature.

On behalf of EGO guitar players around the world, I apologize.

Do any bass players here have any similar on going or past frustrations pertaining to this dilema? If so, what's your beef? Have you wasted big $$$ on power just trying to keep up? What was the fix for you?

In band situations it is pertinant to the overall objective (stellar tone and all around sound) that the mates share opinions on how best to achieve it. I don't believe that the bass player should ever have to compete for frequencies that should be handled by the bassit in the first place. And that's my 2 cents.

Thanks for reading. I'm interested to hear what you have to say. This may help out some young budding virtuoso's that cant hear themselves at practice and I may pick up some pointers or tips too!

ctj

[addylewis]

My guitarists sound is TOO heavy - our stuff isn't that heavy, and his "drive 1" sound sounds how his "full-on" distortion sound should...and his full on distortion sound is FAR too much like white noise (his settings are stupid but he won't change them it goes - acoustic (fine) clean (fine) Distortion (no overdrive setting?! - no wonder "Hate to say I told you so" and "7 Nation army" sound a LITTLE too heavy!!) and White Noise ("Fix that dodgy lead!" kind of thing)

Personally I'd have:

Drive 1 - Strokes-ish overdrive
Drive 2 - Full on distortion (NO scoop!!! oh yeah, did I forget to mention he uses scoop on everything?!)

[All_¥our_Bass]

some mids, a good deal less bass, and turn down the gain a tad.

[vindy500]

wow i wish my guitarist was like you

[Diggler]

You and your band need to find your niches in the frequency spectrum and cut the competing ones out of the PA.

[BrandonBass]

ask ur bass player to turn up his mid in the eq, cool guitarist you are...

and i hav to say the same for my drummer too, that crazy guy just have to break the cymbals or something. I hav to get myself ear plugs because of him

[Dkerwood]

I used to scoop my EQ when I was younger. Yes, it sounded fantastic all by itself, but what do you know? Get up on stage, and not only did it get in the way of the bassist (boosted bass and all), but my lack of mids lost me in the mix. It actually took a wiser musician coming up on stage one day during a sound check and re-eq'ing my amp for me to get it. Now I run my amp EQ flat and color to taste. Much better. My bassist and I stay out of each other's way now. Now if I could only convince her that she doesn't need to crank HER lowest bass knob on her amp...

As far as distortion tones go - I have quite a few options to choose from. Clean - no problem (Fender amp). Dirty 1 - just enough grind to show up when I really lay into it or chord. Dirty 2 - a little more oomph to it, for when I want to really push an important chorded section or help a solo to come through. Overdrive - set up with gain about 10 or 11 o clock. This serves as my "heavy" distortion at church. Distortion - gain sits at about 1 or 2 o clock, and this is my "heavy" distortion at rock gigs. I've also got an EQ pedal set up in a scoop - it serves everything from that acoustic sound to that nasty trebly "modern" rock sound...

Something I've learned. No knob should ever be set to max. If it is, it simply means that you don't trust the manufacturer's ability to create an operating range on your equipment. There's no reason (in my mind) for gain to be on 10, especially when 6 will give nearly the same tone, minus the scratchy crap. A bass knob on 10 will likely cause your amp to "fart" at high volume. Why? Because it's not designed to operate at that extreme.

If your volume ever hits 10, it's time to reevaluate what you're doing and if you're TOO LOUD or if you need to upsize your gear (it's probably too loud). The only piece of gear that I make an exception for are power amplifiers, and even that's not all the time.

[chaosMK]

Talk to your bassist about his tone too. Sounds like he is pushing the wrong frequencies. Meet him in the middle.

How would I change my guitar players sound? Roll off a bit more low end.... get a higher end cabinet, higher end amp head, higher end guitar, a few more effects, maybe something to enchance clarity....

[chesterDjester]

Cool stuff guys, thanks for the replys.

C,

[Alan Vorse]

Less "fizz", more mids and clarity.

[chesterDjester]

Originally Posted by harmolodic

Less "fizz", more mids and clarity.

Ya know, you're so right. I don't know what the issue is with us guitar players and gain. If you take the time to record then play back the actual sound it is almost always crap. Less GAIN DUDES!!!!!!!

Many many years ago, we did a song in the studio where I had mad gain settings for live stuff. When we recorded it, the engineer demanded that I roll off the gain and bottom end. Know what? to this day I get compliments on my sound on that track. At the time I was furious. Today, I'd be inclined to take out a bit more gain still. Less gain and bottom seems to be the best kept secret around. Go figure.

Chester.

[Kenny Allyn]

Being one who played (and still does) guitar for many years before bass I can say that I see "BS" (bedroom syndrome) all the time. It happens to as many bass players as guitar players ... big lows get muddy and highs don't travel far use more of them!

I knew a guitarist several years ago, played in a VERY heavy band and always sounded great in the mix. One nite I got there early and was listening to them sound check ... Whoa he was WAY bright and the distortion/overdrive was minimal.
That's when he was playing solo on stage without the rest of the band ... when they cranked in PERFECTION ... he really knew what he was doing.

Bass players have the same issues ... there is a reason the P bass has been used for so many years on so many recordings and live ... MID bass punch, it's what sounds like BASS out in a room.

[Dkerwood]

Originally Posted by chesterDjester

Ya know, you're so right. I don't know what the issue is with us guitar players and gain. If you take the time to record then play back the actual sound it is almost always crap. Less GAIN DUDES!!!!!!!

Amen. 40% gain typically sounds as "heavy" as 100% gain, but with less FFFFZZZZZZZSSSSSS...

[SnoMan]

Make it inaudible?

[seanm]

The basement syndrome has caught us all. Bought an OD pedal. Sounds killer. Go to rehersal and it is inaudible

One band the volume was fine, until the guitar player bought a Les Paul. Then the volume went up and my 1x12 combo can no longer compete. I had to start wearing ear plugs. I could have brought a second 1x12 but I should not need that much volume to practice in a basement

In another band the problem is the opposite. The lead guitar always brings a small amp to gigs "so he can hear himself." Then he keeps it down low so it won't be too loud. You can never hear him out front or in the band. So I now bring a DI and send him trough the PA.

[steve21]

Use less bass and more mids in your EQ. Or tell your bassist to use more EQ.

[IanStephenson]

Generally I tell guitarists to dump their BOSS/ZOOM/DOD/KORG multiFX9000 all in one peda board, and get a guitar and amp! Strip back to the basics, and get a good tone, then build on it. If it doesn't sound good without fx, it's not going to improve when it's proccessed.

The two guys in my regular band are pretty good and know that already, so I'd personally like to improve the sound by telling one of them to stay home! Nothing personal - they're both great, and I get on with them both, but with the two of them they just eat up space. The bass and guitars are fighting for space, and theres no "freedom" - everything has to be (and is) tight, and in it's place, but theres no where for it to breathe.

I dep'ed for a different band over the weekend, with just one guitar player (though the singer did play a TINY bit of guitar - smart guy new to only do it when necessary), and all of a sudden there was groove again! I followed the guitarist, he followed me and people were dancing! I had the space to lay down some great lines, and got more complements on my playing in one night than I do in a month in my regular band... :-(

Play less, leave space, let the music groove (even if it is heavy rock)

Ian

[chesterDjester]

Originally Posted by SnoMan

Make it inaudible?

Awe, now that just hurts. Can't we all just get along?

cdj

[liquid-dream-ex]

His sound is great, he's just too loud.

[ebe9]

When he's not looking?



Sounds like you need to back off the lows and up the mids and treble.

Try and work out what sort of frequency ranges you bassist in operating in and adjust accordingly.