I have an appointment with the manager of a venue we'd like to play at...

Busker · #1 04-07-2008, 10:51 AM

I have a nice promo package to give him, but I really don't want to give these out to people who are going to take their time looking at it, or worse, stick it away and forget about it, or throw it in the trash. They're pretty slick and cost a bit. But I can't tell him, "I can only give you that if you are really serious about hiring the band," so I guess I just give it to him and hope for the best.

On one hand, here's a manager who will surely want a band for as little as possible, OTOH, here's the band, that needs some decent pay to play there. I live within about 20 miles of the venue, the others will be driving MUCH further, some as much as 60 or 70 miles. I realize that's not the bar manager's concern.

I haven't really done much booking. I once got an old band I was in an opening act gig that led to a few return engagements, but that was the only show I successfully booked. Any tips or advice would be helpful, and much appreciated.

Wish me luck on making a good impression and successful negotiation.

lonote · #2 04-07-2008, 11:11 AM

You have to look past the expense of the promo kits. They are part of the cost of doing business. You and the other band members have to decide how much money you need to make to do a gig. If you don't know, you are not equipped to negotiate a gig. I will say that if you expect everybody who gets a promo kit to respond to you quickly (or respond at all, for that matter), you are looking at some serious disappointment in the future. Good luck, be professional and sell yourself!

invader3k · #3 04-07-2008, 11:20 AM

Always ask high, and negotiate down if you have to. Don't sell yourself short and throw out some pathetic low ball figure. People always have more money than you think. Try not to settle for less than a hundred bucks a man.

lonote is right about the expense of promo packs, and looking past that. However, if you're already meeting with the guy, he must have at least _some_ interest, right? The thing not to do is just start sending out promo packs to all the venues in your area, willy-nilly. Unsolicited materials usually end up in the trash.

QORC · #4 04-07-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busker

I have a nice promo package to give him, but I really don't want to give these out to people who are going to take their time looking at it, or worse, stick it away and forget about it, or throw it in the trash. They're pretty slick and cost a bit. But I can't tell him, "I can only give you that if you are really serious about hiring the band," so I guess I just give it to him and hope for the best.

If I were a manager and you told me that, I'd tell you to walk.

because if my venue is THAT good, I've got 75 other bands as good as you or better who ARE willing to give me a promo kit.

I agree with above - if your promo kits cost that much, economize.

jomahu · #5 04-07-2008, 11:28 AM

yeh, PKs cost money. our main downfall is the lack of video, which we had to shell out even more money for. but once again, it's an investment...your band has to look good, and better than most. otherwise, what's the incentive for a booking agent?
having an actual meeting is promising, tho...for example, we've been trying for a gig at a popular club in NYC, and we were directed to literally put our presskit on a PILE of other packages. hmmm...

either way, good luck to ya.

Spinal Tapper · #6 04-07-2008, 11:30 AM

I don't know if an expensive promo kit is the way to go...

If you have a fan following, you'll get booked. Simple as that. No one wants to book you for a show if you aren't going to draw. But if you have hundreds of people showing up to your shows, then you could probably get away with putting your stuff in a manila envelope.

It's more about how much money the venue will make off of you rather than how pretty your press kit is.

lonote · #7 04-07-2008, 11:45 AM

You don't need to make a magnum opus out of the promo kit. You don't need more than 2 or 3 songs on the demo; you are fooling yourself if you think anybody who books a venue will listen to more than that. Include a decent photo, a set list and any positive press you've received. Post a link to your myspace or web site and you're off to the races. You don't need to have a bunch of stuff nobody is going to bother to look at.

LAG · #8 04-07-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinal Tapper

I don't know if an expensive promo kit is the way to go...

If you have a fan following, you'll get booked. Simple as that. No one wants to book you for a show if you aren't going to draw. But if you have hundreds of people showing up to your shows, then you could probably get away with putting your stuff in a manila envelope.

It's more about how much money the venue will make off of you rather than how pretty your press kit is.

This about says it all. The first question venue owners usually ask at a meeting is - "do you have a big following?"

Busker · #9 04-07-2008, 12:44 PM

How do you answer "do you have a big following"?

Our last gig we played "versus the door" and ended up by bringing about 95 payers through the door, but quite a few more actually came, because around midnight, we started letting them in for free, plus we let a few friends of the band in without paying the cover.

It was a successful night, if the band getting about $470 and the bar owner being happy with the results is successful.

But this gig I'm checking on? We've never played that town before. We are not known there as well.

Spinal Tapper · #10 04-07-2008, 12:50 PM

Well, if you're not known there, then you probably won't bring a ton of people. BUT it is possible to get on the bill with a few local bands and get your music heard. My band has played really nice venues at out of town gigs before, but we were matched up with other out of town bands...to my surprise, no one came...

So, all in all, a really nice venue isn't so nice when it's empty...in fact it's worse than playing a dive with a few local drunks inside.

Depth_Charge · #11 04-08-2008, 03:19 AM

I'm new to running a band as well.

This might be OT but I would have thought if you are running the band as a business then expenses like advertising, promo kits, travel and to some extent gear would be a business deduction at the end of the tax year, right? You probably won't cover what you spend but it would help, right?

IanStephenson · #12 04-08-2008, 05:36 AM

Where we've had signifigant traveling costs we've basically been upfront about our expenses - we NORMALLY charge $XXX but we've got $200 in gas + our time just to get to this gig. We'd love to play, but we need $XXX+$200. Sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't, but they understand it's more expensive than usual for a reason - not because we're over charging them.

Also having established $XXX, we'll negotiate that down for THE FIRST GIG. It's important to let them know your VALUE, and then offer them a discount, rather than go in cheap. Also if you've seperated out traveling expenses your discount on $XXX isn't touching your up front costs.

Ian

Busker · #13 04-08-2008, 05:46 AM

Depth_Charge, If I gave the impression I was "running the band" I'm sorry. I'm in no way running the band. I was just helping out because I'm the one who lives closest to the town this pub/venue is in.

This booking agent guy gave me a handful of press kits to work with, said I could hand them out. So I go to the one I had the appointment with, and we talk. It went well I thought, like perhaps this band was just what he was looking for. He asked what we would need and I said $450 for the first time, hopefully more thereafter if all went well and he was happy with us. He said that was in the ballpark, that he usually offers a first time band $400, so we were close on the money. I left him with a press kit.

After I get home I call the booking agent guy to give him a heads up. Awww, you left him a press kit? I just mailed one to that place. Awww, you said $450? I would have said $550. I told him we were virtually unknown in that town, that the guy would not have went for $550 for a first time gig (the booking agent guy claims it takes forever to hear back from these venues, and that's probably why - he's asking too much money for a first time gig, and most of these places just don't call him back).

I don't see what the problem is. We get our foot in the door for either $400 or $450, do a good job (we usually do), make the bar owner happy, and probably get to go back several more times for the $550, maybe $600. Nothing wrong with that scenario.

QORC · #14 04-08-2008, 05:47 AM

ummmm...isn't that what your booking agent is supposed to do?

Busker · #15 04-08-2008, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QORC

ummmm...isn't that what your booking agent is supposed to do?

What? Ask more money than we can probably get for a first time gig?

rodl2005 · #16 04-08-2008, 06:02 AM

A medium press kit IS good I find. Just a quick description, Photo, CD(if poss- or if not)link/adddress of website, a small set list-or the whole thing if U like & a bio of members is good. we found once we had everything up & running online things got MUCH better, faster, quicker! We Actually don't have a website atm(it's getting done now) but we're listed on a cuppla managements sites, where ppl can see & hear us. & yes they can be $$$$$ but a cuppla gigs pays for it usually. Tax .... too!!!!! Write it ALL off!!!! :-)

QORC · #17 04-08-2008, 06:02 AM

no, book gigs. Isn't that why you have an agent? We is he sending you out to meet with venue owners, then criticizing how you do it?

*shrugs*

We have an agent. We pay him 10% of what we make. He does out bookings, our calls, our promo packages, visits to venues.

We show up and play.

Busker · #18 04-08-2008, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QORC

no, book gigs. Isn't that why you have an agent? We is he sending you out to meet with venue owners, then criticizing how you do it?

*shrugs*

We have an agent. We pay him 10% of what we make. He does out bookings, our calls, our promo packages, visits to venues.

We show up and play.

Yeah, that's what he's supposed to do.

I offered to help us break into this town by visiting some of these venues, because I live close to it. But, yeah, he's supposed to do that, and I just about got P.O.'d that he didn't like the way I handled it, and told him I was giving the rest of the press kits back to him. No, no, keep handing them out.

I know he's asking too much money, like we have this big reputation that blows into town just ahead of us, instantly mesmerizing all these business owners into hiring us, or something. I'm trying to be more realistic, and actually get us a gig.

But the booking agent might simply be doing what HE was told to do, you know? I.E. asking more money than we are likely to get for a first time gig. Despite having a busy May coming up, the fact remains, we've played only 3 gigs since late November, and only 11 since I joined last July.

jomahu · #19 04-08-2008, 01:36 PM

aww, i hate that kinda vibe (of your booking agent). don't do the job right, then complain when someone else does it and gets results.

invader3k · #20 04-08-2008, 01:48 PM

Yeah...sounds like it might be time to either talk to the booking agent regarding expectations, or find someone else. Good for you for stepping up to the plate, at least.