I NEED BACKUP!

CBAnaesthesia · #1 12-10-2007, 10:58 PM

So, I've been faced with the age-old "guitard" dilemma. (For the record, I play guitar, and do not consider all guitarists to be retarded.) My guitarists are self-centered and lazy (for example, even though each of the five of us picked a cover to learn in a week, they have only learned the ones they chose after SIX weeks, 'cause they "don't like the other ones." Also, they spend about half of our weekly jam session just noodling around by themselves, far too loudly to hear us yell at them to stop and focus.) As should be obvious, this is less than an ideal situation. The dilemma arises from the fact that they are friends - more so of our drummer, who is phenomenal, than of me or our vocalist - and the fact that they are extremely talented. So talented, in fact, that I cannot think of one single person in our age group as good as either one of them. They also do not take criticism well, since they put themselves up on a pedestal because of their playing skills. Our drummer is afraid of "driving them out of the band," and our singer doesn't want to be the new guy seeming like he wants to take over the band, but it is honestly getting ridiculous. I always end up looking like a tool because I confront the two of them about their douchebaggery, and the other guys - while I have discussed this with them and I know that they agree - don't back me up. At this point, I have three options:
1. Make them see that they are being reasonably selfish and lazy, and get them to at the very least pull ONE of their own weight between the two of them. For this to happen, they have to realize that they aren't as committed to the band as they are to alcohol, weed, laziness, and themselves, and want to change that.
2. Give them the boot. This would really hurt me, because they have been with us a long time, and for it to have to come to that seems unnecessary. It would also cripple our band, because if one of them goes, the other one would have to as well, and we would lose two strong musical allies that would be tough to replace.
3. I could quit, but I started the band, I write most of the music, and I write all of the lyrics. Angry as I am at them, I would really, really like to not shaft them like that by taking all of my material. That being said, if I did quit, I would definitely be not allowing them to use my music or lyrics.

I know many of you have been in a similar situation before, and I would really appreciate your input. My band is my only "me" time right now - and call me an a-hole, but it is my band - and for them to continue ruining it for me, I just find unacceptable.

winstonthecat · #2 12-10-2007, 11:44 PM

Talented but lazy never works. If they are more interested in noodling than playing real music, it is time to find other players. Seriously, there are plenty of good guitarists out there, no reason to put up with talented wankers...It sounds like they are not really adding anything to your music. Get them out and find decent guitarists ready and willing to contribute.

Smurf · #3 12-10-2007, 11:56 PM

If it is your band, then run it like your band. Jamming is one thing, but if you are serious about getting out and playing, and making money, it has to be run like a business....and no job would put up with employees like that....

jimbob · #4 12-11-2007, 12:15 AM

Quit and see what happens...

**Mickey Shane** · #5 12-11-2007, 10:08 AM

Next practice, do what they do. I've seen our guitarist tame our drummer's volume without saying a word.

It won't kill you to noodle (make sure that you are in a key that doesn't mix well with the guitar noodling) Noodle loud and proud. Watch one of the guitarists think that it's his idea that everyone should stop so that ya'll can get some work done.

bassmonkeee · #6 12-11-2007, 10:38 AM

I'd just kick them in the balls to see if that gets their attention.

Or, perhaps a taser.

txbasschik · #7 12-11-2007, 10:48 AM

Tell them that the band needs to focus on the listed material...all of it. Tell them that during practice, when it is time to start, they must stop wheedling and work on the song.

When you, the drummer, and the singer are ready to start a song, but the guitar-wankers keep noodling after being asked to stop it...

Just start the song. Full on. When they whine that they weren't ready yet, tell them, "We asked you repeatedly to focus. You ignored us. So...when you ignore us, we will start songs without you. If you don't like that, then focus, or go home and noodle by yourself."

Cherie

lomo · #8 12-11-2007, 10:51 AM

Try number one, and give a date by which #2 kicks in if option 1 fails.

txbasschik · #9 12-11-2007, 10:56 AM

You know, this very problem has made me not want to work with certain guitarists. Nice guys, talented...but noodlers who either cannot or will not focus. Even when you call their name repeatedly. Even when you just start playing the song because they're not paying any attention. Two of the guitarists in question will just stop mid-song and start noodling around with a completely different song, because they like that song and want to play it, rather than the one being practiced.

I find it rude. One of the guys' wife says that he just goes into a zone when he plays, and that he can't even hear us calling out to him to stop. Well...ok, he goes into a zone. If that zone does not include the entire band, I can't have him in a band, period.

Cherie

CBAnaesthesia · #10 12-11-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txbasschik

Just start the song. Full on.
Cherie

That is an excellent idea, I should have thought of that! If the other three of us worked out some kind of hand signals (3 fingers for this song, 2 for another, etc.), we wouldn't even have to yell. Thanks!

txbasschik · #11 12-11-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBAnaesthesia

That is an excellent idea, I should have thought of that! If the other three of us worked out some kind of hand signals (3 fingers for this song, 2 for another, etc.), we wouldn't even have to yell. Thanks!

Glad you like it! Unless the guitarist is totally zoned out, this usually gets his or her attention very quickly. Work out a signal of some kind, or just tell the drummer, "Let's play such-and-such a song. Give us a stick count." Then play.

That oughtta get the guitar stampede turned around right quicklike! Their requisite lead-guitarist egos won't let them be left out of the song.

Cherie

KsToaDangr · #12 12-11-2007, 01:52 PM

I had pretty much the same problem with a guitarist a few years ago. I wrote most of the music, he wrote most of the lyrics. I ended up quitting the band, but they asked me back a few weeks later because "none of the bassists we've auditioned is as good as you". I told the guitarist that I would play one more show with the band, and if he hadn't gotten over his teenage bulls*** by the end of that show, I was out. His way of getting over it was to crank all of the knobs on my amp all the way up without saying a word to me. When I turned on my distortion and OD pedals at the same time, the circuit board in my amp caught on fire. Needless to say, I left the band, taking all of my gear and one of his amps with me.

wingnut · #13 12-11-2007, 02:17 PM

I've been around guitarists for damn near 30 years now and I still don't get it. Can anyone who maybe used to be one or is one, explain why it is they have to loudly noodle when other members are trying to communcate. I've always had success getting them to turn down by embarrassing them. Whenever they get too loud I always start playing "mary had a little lamb" until they notice I've changed songs, then ask them what took so long to notice. But the other problem just never goes away. Is it maybe a nervous habit specific to guitards? Are they not aware they are doing it? Maybe they really are just basically rude and self centered as a whole. They no you're talking because they look right at you trying to tell them something and they just keep on playing. The only other class of musician I've run across this with is sax players. I have had to actually just totally be a dick and not play a single note until they stop and listen to whatever is being said.

98dvl · #14 12-11-2007, 02:22 PM

Threads like this make me think two things...

1) Are ALL guitarists like this? (I know there are a FEW who aren't, but most I've encountered fit this thread to a 't')

2) What do guitarists think of bass players, in general?

To answer the OP's question, have a talk with the guitar player - away from everyone else. Tell him what he does that makes you unhappy, and try to work out a way to resolve it. If you do it in front of the other guys, he might feel like you're picking on him.

If that doesn't work, tell him again, but then say that if it doesn't get fixed by such-and-such date, you're gone, and taking your songs, and everything else you own from the band (you do own it, right? Better clear that up before you leave! Hopefully, you all had a written agreement as to what sort of rights there are to the band's "intellectual property". I see a can of worms opening in this scenario.) and you're going to find another project, or another guitar player at the least.

agreatheight · #15 12-11-2007, 02:37 PM

Here's a nasty but very effective trick for getting people to focus at rehearsals - cup the microphone with your hand until the PA squeals with feedback. Then say, "thanks for you attention, can we please get back to work?"

Good luck!

mikedubbs · #16 12-11-2007, 04:29 PM

I got a noodling drummer. In my case I identified the problem as him not playing in his spare time, therefore it all comes out during rehearsal. We couldn't get a second to tune, set the PA, talk, etc. So we told him "the first 10 minutes of practice you sit & go Keith Moon on your **** while we have a beer and cigarette. But when we start rehearsing if you pull that crap then we will have an issue." Practice now lasts 10min longer but it helped about 80% ~ he still gets ADD every once in a while but it's tolerable now.

gdthomas · #17 12-11-2007, 04:43 PM

Seems like this has been going on for a while and will continue. Everyone has had to play songs they don't like and that is not a good enough reason not to learn them, and shows a lack of respect for everyone else.

CBAnaesthesia · #18 12-12-2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedubbs

I got a noodling drummer. In my case I identified the problem as him not playing in his spare time, therefore it all comes out during rehearsal. We couldn't get a second to tune, set the PA, talk, etc. So we told him "the first 10 minutes of practice you sit & go Keith Moon on your **** while we have a beer and cigarette. But when we start rehearsing if you pull that crap then we will have an issue." Practice now lasts 10min longer but it helped about 80% ~ he still gets ADD every once in a while but it's tolerable now.

That's another good idea I never would have thought of. Thanks.

will.i.am · #19 12-12-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingnut

The only other class of musician I've run across this with is sax players.

I OBJECT!

ducatiman · #20 12-13-2007, 07:11 AM

2 words.....focus and discipline. and they apply to ALL the members of a band. if it ain't there, you've got children playing with toys in a basement. it also applies alone in a home practice situation. noodling = musical masturbation