I'm clueless about piecing this type of project together.

[cassanova]

I have been assigned the task of piecing together a music ensemble. The current line up is as follows: bass guitar, drummer, pianist, guitarist, clarinet, and a french horn.

I have no problems with the drummer, pianist, or guitarist, (other than she (the guitarist) may or may not be able to play as well as I'm hoping. I'll know more on that next Friday) What I am running into problems with is the french horn and clarinet.

These are not personal problems with the musicians themselves, the problem that I'm having is trying to figure out what music to play that involves a french horn. The clarinet is also stumping me a bit, but, in the long run I think I'll be ok with that, jazz, swing/big band has clarinet, so I'm sure that I'll be able to find something involving it.

The drummer made what I thought to be a good suggestion and have everyone bring their instruments with them on Friday and have an impromptu jam session to kind of feel everyone out. I'm not overly worried about the drums, piano, or myself on the bass, I know that these instruments are played in a wide variety of genres, so finding music for at least us to do won't be a problem.

Another suggestion that I made, was to have the french horn and clarinet bring in all the sheet music they might have and to let them do a piece that is fairly specific for their instrument while the rest of us write our own lines and back them on those pieces. Maybe even write their own lines to the music or try as best they can to play a sax line on the horn, etc. I know it won't sound the same, but it might work. I don't know though.

I was intending for this project to be jazz, smooth jazz, swing/big band, reggae, and some R & B. But now I'm not so sure if any of this is even going to work out. I am also still searching for 2 key players that will help make this work, a saxophone and trumpet. I think that if I were able to find a sax/trumpet, It would be easier to do things like "sing sing sing (with a swing)" and make it perhaps easier to incorporate the french horn. Hell if I know though.

I feel like I"m trying to put a square peg into a round hole and am becoming quite frustrated and we haven't even had our first rehearsal yet. That's next Friday and we still don't have material. It's just going to be an improve style jam. UGH, I hate not having crap together. BTW, since this is a college ensemble, I cannot kick anyone out or prevent them from joining, so that's not an option.

Any and all input is welcome.

[Jehos]

Wow, interesting project.

I think the french horn is going to be the toughest to integrate. Clarinet is used a lot in eastern European / former USSR-area music, and I think middle-eastern as well, so you could look to that style for inspiration. The french horn though, that's normally reserved for smoothing out a brass section or doing fills in orchestral pieces that are supposed to sound kind of like "horns on a distant hillside on a foggy morning". There's not a lot of presence in a french horn.

Try doing some swing or big-band pieces with the clarinet subbing for a trumpet and the french horn subbing for a sax. That might sound ok or it might be a big pile of poo. Can you add instruments? French horn and cello sound good together, and clarinet can team up with a sax or maybe a flute.

Are you supposed to compose original music for this project?

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by cassanova

Any and all input is welcome.

There's a guy in Seattle who's fairly well known for playing jazz on French horn. His name is Tom Varner.

Personally, I'd shoot for ECM-style jazz, where pretty much any instrumentation works. Depends a lot on how good the players are though, of course. Otherwise, the big band approach seems like a good bet, assuming you can get a few more horns involved.

But for some reason I'm diggin' the idea of a hip hop ensemble with everyone just playing snippets of what they can already do.

[cassanova]

Originally Posted by Jehos

Wow, interesting project.

I think the french horn is going to be the toughest to integrate. Clarinet is used a lot in eastern European / former USSR-area music, and I think middle-eastern as well, so you could look to that style for inspiration. The french horn though, that's normally reserved for smoothing out a brass section or doing fills in orchestral pieces that are supposed to sound kind of like "horns on a distant hillside on a foggy morning". There's not a lot of presence in a french horn.

Try doing some swing or big-band pieces with the clarinet subbing for a trumpet and the french horn subbing for a sax. That might sound ok or it might be a big pile of poo. Can you add instruments? French horn and cello sound good together, and clarinet can team up with a sax or maybe a flute.

Are you supposed to compose original music for this project?

I've thought about having the 2 instruments sub other parts. The french horn kid was tellin me tonight on the phone (after reading your post) that sometimes they double a sax line. So I'm definitely going to give that a shot. I was also thinking the same with the clarinet, but not only have her sub trumpet lines, have her also sub some guitar solos for a piece I'd like us to try "Christmas Canon Rock" as performed by Trans Siberian Orchestra. I was thinking the horn, since its got that mellow tone, might be able to dupe the violin lines and the clarinet cover the guitar solo, while the guitarist holds down the rhythm guitar line.

Nothing was ever mentioned to me about having to compose original material for this. But since you mention it, that might not really be a bad idea. We're all getting together next Friday for the first jam session and its going to be all improvisation work, so maybe the original aspect might be the way to go. Let everyone just write their own line, this way everybody wins.

I still think the key is finding a trumpet and sax, this would at least make big band/swing more possible. Personally, if I had my way, I'd scrap the french horn player just for practicality reasons.

[cassanova]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

There's a guy in Seattle who's fairly well known for playing jazz on French horn. His name is Tom Varner.

Personally, I'd shoot for ECM-style jazz, where pretty much any instrumentation works. Depends a lot on how good the players are though, of course. Otherwise, the big band approach seems like a good bet, assuming you can get a few more horns involved.

But for some reason I'm diggin' the idea of a hip hop ensemble with everyone just playing snippets of what they can already do.

If I'm understanding that link on Tom Varner correctly, he does improvisational work correct? If that's the case, That might be the best route for this until I can obtain more players. Hopefully, a trumpet or two and at least one sax.

Oh yes, I can see it now, snippets of Snoop Doggy Dog, P-Diddy (or whatever the Hell name he's going by now), Busta Rhymes, and Ludacris, all being done on a french horn. Thats Gangsta.

[baalroo]

What exactly is the point of this ensemble? (serious question, not obnoxious rhetoric) If it's to explore the idea of arranging/writing music for odd instrumentations then I would say don't try to cheat the instruments into faking other instruments. If the musicians are competent then I would start with a bit of a jam session (as you're already planning) and then discuss at the end with everyone how they felt they best "fit in" and complimented the ensemble. Then I would work from there. Basically, why bother with a clarinet and a french horn if you're just going to try and make them less clarinet-y and french horn-ish?

[cassanova]

Originally Posted by baalroo

What exactly is the point of this ensemble? (serious question, not obnoxious rhetoric) If it's to explore the idea of arranging/writing music for odd instrumentations then I would say don't try to cheat the instruments into faking other instruments. If the musicians are competent then I would start with a bit of a jam session (as you're already planning) and then discuss at the end with everyone how they felt they best "fit in" and complimented the ensemble. Then I would work from there. Basically, why bother with a clarinet and a french horn if you're just going to try and make them less clarinet-y and french horn-ish?

The only music program(s) the college offers is the chamber singers choir. I thought it would be a good way to promote live music by playing at the many events held on the campus and to also back the chamber singers with a live band rather than a CD like they always use.

I am also wanting to do this to promote music education.

I don't see how having a french horn or clarinet play a trumpet, sax, or even guitar line is making their instrument less french hornish or clarinety or even cheating the musicians. I wouldn't even say its faking the other instruments. It is still going to sound like the respective instrument they are playing only they're playing a different type of line. It's just going to sound different. Whether its going to sound good or bad has yet to be determined, But, if anything, I'd say it is expanding the boundaries and exploring new roles for their instrument, and making them a better, more well rounded musician.

The girl that plays the clarinet said something to the effect of she can play trumpet lines on the clarinet because it was originally used to back trumpets much like a bass was to the cello. (or something very close to that.) I haven't researched this yet to find out if its true or not, but shes been in band since the 6th grade, so I'd like to think she knows what she's talking about.

As far as bothering with a french horn or clarinet, well I have to. Because it's not a class it's considered a club so, I can't turn anyone expressing interest away from the ensemble nor can I kick them out. I'm going to talk to the adviser and dean of student activities to see if I can at least hold auditions for this. That might give me some gray area that I can work with. But if everyone's as competent as I'm hoping, then despite the oddities of the instruments it will work out some how. We'll all just have to compromise and improvise a bit.

[BassChuck]

This can be a nice ensemble. Keep it simple. You'll have to compose or arrange the music... and that's a very good thing.

The french horn is a cool idea and very workable. Keep the parts simple and melodic.

One thing you should be aware of if you aren't already is that you are dealing with two transposing instruments. For instance, if you are playing in the key of Bb, the horn part will have to be written in the key of F and the clarinet will need to be in the key of C. This has to do with the way the instruments are made... it's not a big deal at all, you just have to be aware of it and prepare accordingly. While it is very true that in school band the french horns will double the sax line (at least in simple music) you cannot give a sax part to the horn players, because alto saxes are in Eb and Tenors are in Bb... so parts would have to be transposed before playing... or perhaps the players are experienced with this and can transpose at sight (never count on this being the case unless you are dealing with professional players).

How you deal with this is the subject of many books on orchestration and they'll be available at your library. Check with your music teacher, they should be able to help you with this.

This can be a wonderful sound and a great ensemble. And best of all you are going to learn a lot about music. Sounds like a very good project.