The "I'm only in it for the money" club

[nortonrider]

Originally Posted by HolmeBass

Oh please, you play for free but none of these things have ever happened to you? You're blaming a fellow musician for having seen or been involved with unscrupulous venues? Blame the victim much? This a troll thread. Obvious troll is obvious.

I find it interesting how many here are so quick to demonize bar owners.
I have no doubt that there are "shady" bar owners, but I also know that they are all NOT out to screw over the musicians that play in their bars.

I have never been victimized by a bar owner.

troll thread - weak!

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Look at the thread title.


I think the OP flowed nicely into the other statements he made quite nicely so I see Jimmy's points. Why the focus on money? He expanded on the reasoning behind the question and Jimmy's on point IMO.

Clearly. I know it gives you a little chest pain when you say that But clearly this is the case.

[nortonrider]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

You, OTOH, have a hangup about not playing for a living. It's obvious. We're not stupid...this thread went the direction it went because you took it there, so don't blame us for "misunderstanding" you. I wish you a good life no matter how far you pursue music, but if it's not your goal to make money with music, don't antagonize others who do. Otherwise you will be perceived as being bitter about not making a living with music.

that's funny!

[JimmyM]

I take it you don't own a mirror, either.

[nortonrider]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

Whatever JimmyM - I don't want to argue with you.

Is it considered bad if I quote myself?

[Hobobob]

Troll thread is still working...

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Hobobob

Troll thread is still working...

Can't help it. I'm a sucker.

[wmheilma]

I play for the love of music here at home, but there has to be a good reason to go out and play for free. The club owners are not giving away food and drinks for free. If the gig does not pay at least $100, I would rather stay home than go give club owners the idea that they can have great live music for nothing while they make money. A drummer in one of my bands recently said, "The musicians are all clawing their way to the bottom! Soon there will be no paying gigs left at all."

[nortonrider]

Originally Posted by Hobobob

Troll thread is still working...

really man,,,,,,, that's all you got?

[Hobobob]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Can't help it. I'm a sucker.

We all are sometimes, Jimmy. I guess some folks just can't be reasoned with, eh?

[Hobobob]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

really man,,,,,,, that's all you got?

Honestly, I respect your ability to rile folks up, and then keep them going even when it's obvious you're not changing your mind. It's provided me with quite a bit of free entertainment.

[nortonrider]

So........
I'm going to bed.

If any of you can get past hobobobs attempted derail, please answer the questions in the Original Post.

Thank you and good night.

[lowfreq33]

The fact is, if you're playing at a bar or music venue that charges a cover and sells food and drinks, and doesn't pay the you, the entertainer, who is for the most part the reason the paying customers are there, then your are being taken advantage of.

When I'm not on the road with my band I pick up sub gigs around town, these generally pay $30-$50 a man plus tips. Not a lot, although on a weekend this can turn into$100-$150 a man at the right place. I do it for fun, to network, and for the bit of extra cash. Doesn't bother me that the bar itself isn't paying that much, I liken it to waiting tables. But I have to get SOMETHING for my time. I used to work in the restaurant business, and I know what the profit margin is on alcohol sales. Any bar that has people coming in the door is turning a profit, I promise you. If you're responsible for bringing some of those people in then you deserve a cut.

[NelsonNelson]

Originally Posted by plankspanker13

Age has a lot to do with it, too. There has not been a band over the age of 30 to make it big, in a long time. Such is the nature of the pop music machine.

Um....have you not turned on your TV lately and seen the Zac Brown band?

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

Yes I did.

I have to ask... with all of these short quotes, is that all you're gleaning from these posts?

Actually, It is all of the recent posts to that effect that prompted me to start this thread and ask the question in the first place.
Maybe guys are saying such things to somehow build themselves up and increase their perceived "worth" as a musician. "I am to good to play for free" and so on.
I don't know, that's why I asked.

It's funny that that's the "maybe" you went for. How about maybe it's simply true... they won't work cheaper than X dollars? Too far fetched? Or too obvious?

People that want to pay you peanuts for your skills often develope a nasty habit... they want you to continue to work for peanuts. I don't say I won't work for peanuts to brag, I say it because I won't work for peanuts. Fact. Because people do tend to take advantage of that. Life is too short and I'm sure I can find better uses of my time.

Ya think?

I do find it interesting how many are willing to post what they won't do.

I find your whole take on this interesting and openly one-sided. Despite what people are explaining to you.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Clearly. I know it gives you a little chest pain when you say that But clearly this is the case.

Not at all... you know how infrequently it occurs.


All kidding aside when it comes to professional matters we tend to agree. It ain't rocket science.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

I find it interesting how many here are so quick to demonize bar owners.
I have no doubt that there are "shady" bar owners, but I also know that they are all NOT out to screw over the musicians that play in their bars.

I have never been victimized by a bar owner.

troll thread - weak!

What is your experience as a gigging musician dealing with bar owners?

Mine haven't been bad overall but alot of that is because of how I approach those gigs. I don't play games and I don't tolerate people who do. You can tell me the door was light on a gig with set pay, I'll commiserate with you but I still expect what we agreed to. That's business.

[Beano_z]

Very interesting thread, read through a lot of posts and there seems to be no concensus for such a topic.

I read somewhere in another post, I believe it's the club for "crappy players with expensive gear" or something along that line. Someone noticed that there are some awsome players who own nothing but ****** gear and cheap equipment. It got me thinking that I could roughly devide amature musicians into two types, one type that relies on the money they make at gig's or recordings to fund the "hobby" and the other type that just plays for fun and funds the hobby through other means of income. Actually this applies for a lot of hobbies.

Now I firmly belong to the second group. When I was in highschool, all I wanted to do was become a rock-star, but as I got older I realized that I just sucked at playing and the competition was just too hard for me, which meant I got my degree and got a dayjob. Now that passion for music has stayed with me all along, so eventhough I don't earn super high wages or anything, I found I could afford to pay for this hobby. Which in the end took the stress out of it and made it more fun. I play only music that I and my bandmates enjoy playing, all 4 of us are not in it for the money, so the general atmosphere is really relaxed.

Of course, we are nowhere near the standards of some of the players here, but hey, we're having fun and we enjoy the dinner after reheasal just as much as playing together.

Through music and other hobbies, I've been anle to meet many new people over the years, some have drifted away, some have become a part of my life, and I think that's worth much more to me than any money that music will be able to bring me (partly also because I suck at playing).

[lowfreq33]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

I find it interesting how many here are so quick to demonize bar owners.
I have no doubt that there are "shady" bar owners, but I also know that they are all NOT out to screw over the musicians that play in their bars.

I have never been victimized by a bar owner.

troll thread - weak!

Didn't you say you've only done 12 gigs in your life? That doesn't give you much experience to judge bar owners by.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Let me make this clear...neither I, nor anyone who plays music for a living, needs to say such things to build ourselves up.

Jimmy... in all honesty... there are some of us (guessing you may be in this club)... that do things that increase our perceived value....

It's all the nutty stuff garage bands get past... having a good website name... easy to read/find/identify business cards... a phone number that you can text to...

We don't "say" things... there is an increased perceived value when our website works on a smart phone... we publish a list of the 1000 songs we're familiar with etc.

So no we don't "say" things... we're probably have better packaging... that says a ton to a prospective band leader.

Originally Posted by nortonrider

Maybe guys are saying such things to somehow build themselves up and increase their perceived "worth" as a musician. "I am to good to play for free" and so on.
I don't know, that's why I asked.

I do find it interesting how many are willing to post what they won't do.

After playing around with multiple acts... there is a time when NOT going out is a good thing... hugging the baby is a good thing.

I've been blessed with the ability to have great mentors... blessed with the ability to listen to them.

One guy when I was starting out gave me a few "commandments for gigging & married musician's longevity"

1. open a separate bank account & tax id for gigging
2. keep clean books for music
3. NEVER ask the Mrs permission to buy gear (can it come out of the family fund)... it all comes out of the gigging account
4. Periodically pull a few bucks out of the account to give the Mrs a few bucks to get her nails done
5. bend over backwards to ensure the Mrs has a personal life
6. when you're gigging - never play free gigs when you could be with your friends and family

Looking back on the calendar of last year...

The worst attended... worst run... most stressful... most prep time were the volunteer gigs... I did a payback for a friend - mistake on my part.