Jealous guitarist syndrome...or not

MysticMichael · #1 08-07-2006, 02:37 PM

So many players on TB complain of guitarists who are rigid, egocentric prima donnas; guys who are jealous of any glory that the bassist might get if he dares to play "outside of the box" (i.e. the root-five rut)...

I've been playing for nearly 30 years - and I'm a pretty creative player at that, frequently coming up with busy lines that are quite outside the traditional pocket. And yet, I can't recall being criticized for it by a guitarist even once. When they comment at all, it's almost always to compliment me for my creativity, style and taste...

Either a) most guitarists are a lot more cool than they're generally being portrayed here, b) I just happen to have played with some unusually cool guitarists, and/or c) they just haven't been able to find anything to complain about in my playing...

Is jealous guitarist syndrome really as widespread as it's often portrayed? Thoughts?

MM

steve21 · #2 08-07-2006, 03:52 PM

When I did my first jam w/ my side group, my drummer and guitarist were both happy w/ the almost lead-bassish playing.

But I've also been told to play

A------------------------0-0----2-2----0-0
E-2-2-2-0-2-0-2-2-0-2-2----2-2----2-2----

But that was a "Group" from my first month of playing w/ a very poor guitarist.

Chili · #3 08-07-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

So many players on TB complain of guitarists who are rigid, egocentric prima donnas; guys who are jealous of any glory that the bassist might get if he dares to play "outside of the box" (i.e. the root-five rut)...

I've been playing for nearly 30 years - and I'm a pretty creative player at that, frequently coming up with busy lines that are quite outside the traditional pocket. And yet, I can't recall being criticized for it by a guitarist even once. When they comment at all, it's almost always to compliment me for my creativity, style and taste...

Either a) most guitarists are a lot more cool than they're generally being portrayed here, b) I just happen to have played with some unusually cool guitarists, and/or c) they just haven't been able to find anything to complain about in my playing...

Is jealous guitarist syndrome really as widespread as it's often portrayed? Thoughts?

MM

i could of sworn u posted this exact post in the other topic lol

but yeah, i havnt came across a guitarist yet who gets jelouis of havin another instrument havin some of the lime light, but some guitarist do eventually get it, coz they learn to solo and they get better at it, and as they get better they seem to like todo it more and more, and they dont seem to work with the other band members, rarther they just want them to lay a blanc canves down so they can solo over the top, like i have a mate, we used to jam alot, came up with things we were both really praud of, but now he loves to solo way to much, so our jams are turning into him playing solos, and i can tell he just wants me to play something underneath him for half an hour so he can solo, to me thats not jamming, its a shame becouse we used to really listen to each other, but when i to take a solo, he wont hold a steady rythem, hell start doodling around n stuff till he gets his solo...which he never used todo, it really gets anoying

pklima · #4 08-08-2006, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Either a) most guitarists are a lot more cool than they're generally being portrayed here, b) I just happen to have played with some unusually cool guitarists, and/or c) they just haven't been able to find anything to complain about in my playing...

Is jealous guitarist syndrome really as widespread as it's often portrayed? Thoughts?

MM

I've never run into it but I suspect it's because I look too intimidating.

clanner · #5 08-08-2006, 07:37 AM

maybe one of the reasons people get the jealous guitarist syndrome is because they're playing busy lines that just don't fit with the song. I'm guilty of doing this when writing but it usually gets hammered out by the time we get to the end and actually perform the song.

Suckbird · #6 08-08-2006, 08:04 AM

The guitar players i know just tell me i dont have a life..

chaosMK · #7 08-08-2006, 09:18 AM

We are all on the same team in my band. All of us know that we wouldnt be doing much without each other working together.

With that said, a lot of guitarists are idiots. But so are most people.

**baba** · #8 08-08-2006, 09:25 AM

My guess is that the majority of guitarists arent' jealous. They simply want the bass to do its job first and foremost. If you can hold down the groove and be creative without creating a busy feel, they are probably happy.

I've seen and heard the bass players that wank and throw chops all over the song when the song doesn't need it or call for it. A guitarist worth his salt will be turned off by this, not impressed. A good musician plays what's appropriate for the song.

Chili · #9 08-08-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

My guess is that the majority of guitarists arent' jealous. They simply want the bass to do its job first and foremost. If you can hold down the groove and be creative without creating a busy feel, they are probably happy.

I've seen and heard the bass players that wank and throw chops all over the song when the song doesn't need it or call for it. A guitarist worth his salt will be turned off by this, not impressed. A good musician plays what's appropriate for the song.

very true, but that can be sed for any instrument, not just bass, it seems alot of guitarists have it in there head they r better than the bassist, even if they dont say it, you can just tell with some people

**baba** · #10 08-09-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

very true, but that can be sed for any instrument, not just bass,

Yes, to an extent that can be said for any instrument, but....

The bass and the drums play a significantly different role than lead instruments like guitar, horns, vox, and even keys. Bass/drums keep the train moving and the progression flowing. When they stop, the train stops. Guitar and other lead parts have the freedom to dash in and out of the song, throw paint at the tapestry, noodle around the melody, etc. In fact, it's their primary role. It's not the bassist's primary role.

MazeMouse · #11 08-09-2006, 10:48 AM

My current guitarist actually WANTS me to solo, not because I'm good at it but because he thinks I should do it to fit the song....
Seems a bit chilly in hell today...

txbasschik · #12 08-09-2006, 11:30 AM

I've encountered both "jealous" guitarists, and guitarists who were wonderful to work with. Thankfully, very few of the former, and a good many of the latter.

The guitarists whom I did not enjoy playing with were all big-time noodlers/nuthin-but-shredders. Guys who just want to fill the whole song with leads and their own glory. I've been at jams with these people, and every bassist there would practically beg the next bassist to come up, because these guitarists were just wanking off musically all over the place. Extremely difficult to hold a groove with players like that.

But mostly, I've had fun with the guitarists I've played with. Trading off lines, figuring out how to support their playing, not get in the way of their leads, and still be creative. I've received more compliments than complaints.

One thing I can say for this current band...they *want* me to play interesting bass lines. We're a 3-piece, so I have to fill space more often, and they encourage me greatly.

Cherie

MysticMichael · #13 08-12-2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

My guess is that the majority of guitarists arent' jealous. They simply want the bass to do its job first and foremost. If you can hold down the groove and be creative without creating a busy feel, they are probably happy.

I've seen and heard the bass players that wank and throw chops all over the song when the song doesn't need it or call for it. A guitarist worth his salt will be turned off by this, not impressed. A good musician plays what's appropriate for the song.

Very good points, of course. And for what it's worth, I find that as I continue to refine a self-composed bassline over time, it usually becomes simpler - not more complex - just because I'm able to better recognize the essential elements of the line, so I can leave out the filler. Kind of like the sculptor that succeeds by "chipping away all the stone that doesn't look like...a man and woman kissing", for example. Bass in particular seems to benefit a great deal from this "less is more" approach - because the notes you play then assume greater power, authority and significance from the newly-created "space" around them...

That said, there are those occasional songs that actually demand a very busy, highly-creative bass part. So it's nice to cultivate the imagination and the chops necessary to conceive and execute accordingly. But the part should still groove, and should still make an actual musical statement - preferably something more profound than just "Hey girls! Look how fast I can wank!"

I suppose that's the difference between an artist and a technician...

MM

LiquidMidnight · #14 08-14-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

I've seen and heard the bass players that wank and throw chops all over the song when the song doesn't need it or call for it. A guitarist worth his salt will be turned off by this, not impressed. A good musician plays what's appropriate for the song.

You hit the nail on the head.

I never got the whole "guitarists are jerks" mentality I see here. ***hole musicians are ***hole musicians. I've met guitarists, singers, drummers, bass players, horn players, and keyboardists who were asshats. Most of the guitarists I've met are very cool and humble guys. The only stereotype that I've found SOMEWHAT true is that singers are a little more egocentric. But that's to be expected (and you want a confident frontperson).

seanm · #15 08-14-2006, 08:57 PM

I also have been "lucky" with guitar players. Most of them really enjoy bass and I am usually pretty up front in the mix.

badstonebass · #16 08-15-2006, 12:46 PM

I have been th so called "jealous" guitarist I suppose.

However, the only time I ever had problems with what a bassist was playing was when I was in cover bands. Usually guys want to overplay on some AC/DC or Priest.

On original music I never really had a problem unless it just got ridiculous. Most times I put down a bass part in my songs anyhow. Since I am a fan of running lines not thumping on E. Most guys never had a problem sticking fairly close to what I write. I write fun bass parts.

Now I am the bass in my last two bands. One was a tribute band where I played everything exactly like Gene Simmons(who has fun basslines). The current band is a very popular cover band and I try my best to hit those parts as well.

MazeMouse · #17 08-15-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Very good points, of course. And for what it's worth, I find that as I continue to refine a self-composed bassline over time, it usually becomes simpler - not more complex - just because I'm able to better recognize the essential elements of the line, so I can leave out the filler. Kind of like the sculptor that succeeds by "chipping away all the stone that doesn't look like...a man and woman kissing", for example. Bass in particular seems to benefit a great deal from this "less is more" approach - because the notes you play then assume greater power, authority and significance from the newly-created "space" around them...

I tend to work the other way around. Start simple and add little bits and pieces. (trying as I go. If it doesn't work it gets scrapped) Most of the time I start off running-roots and go from there, adding fills, changing paterns, going slowly into a walking line, etc
Kind of like a painter (or better, a drawing artist) starting simple and adding or changing bits and pieces untill he is satisfied with the result.

geoffkhan · #18 08-15-2006, 07:40 PM

Well, the other thing to consider it that there's nothing wrong with not being 'fancy' and wanting to stick around the roots, and simple, repetitive basslines. So I wouldn't call it a 'rut', although it certainly can become a rut for some players.

However, addressing the jealous guitarist syndrome you describe, I also think it's funny, because all the guitarists I've played with are pretty cool about my busy playing. The closest I've gotten was the remark "you like that really treble-y bass tone, I guess..." And it wasn't said in a rolling-eyes way.

markjazzbassist · #19 08-15-2006, 10:23 PM

a lot of the jealous guitarist syndrome is manifested in young musicians. it seems like the older and more talented guitarists and other musicians get on their respective instruments, the more they appreciate a good bass player. i think the syndrome is something that every musician has at one time in their career and hopefully they just grow up and get over it.

ineedpizza420 · #20 08-24-2006, 10:00 AM

I am a fairly new bassist and have played guitar for 8 years so I've seen both sides of the issue. When I used to play guitar I'll admit that I probably took more solo time during a jam but at the same time I was encouraged to by our singer/rhythm guitarist. Our bass player could solo but when he did he often made an awful attempt at slapping and popping which didnt fit at all with our type of music (zeppelin and stones stuff like that). Maybe if he was better it would've been different. Now that I'm on the bass end I always get a hard time for laying down a line for a measure or two then improving off of it and coming back to it. Also my solo's are really guitar like which I'm trying to get away from. Needless to say the guitarist doesn't like it but I don't think it's jealousy as much as it not fitting and when I was on the guitar end it definetly wasn't jealousy...our bassist was just in his own world playing some funk (badly) over our bluesy rock progressions. I beleive jealous guitarists exist but luckily I've never been one or played bass for one.