Join the new band, or not?

[EddiePlaysBass]

Give or take 2 years ago, I answered an ad and helped start a blues band (band 1). At the time, the singer and the guitarist were in a different band, and the drummer was in 2 different bands plus some projects. We hired a second guitarist, and for a while things took off. We got good gigs, opening for international (blues) acts and it culminated into an opening slot on a pretty good festival.

The band of the singer and guitarist disbanded about 6 months after we started the blues band (band 1). They started a second band (band 2) got a different rhythm section, a new (and incredibly good) guitarist and recorded an album. It took off like crazy in the local blues scene, and it has led them to get loads and loads of gigs. This caused discord in band 1, between the singer and guitarist (being in band 2 ) on the one hand, and the drummer and the second guitarist on the other hand. As a bass player, I seem to fall nicely between both factions.

Though band 1 has not yet officially disbanded, it seems highly unlikely that we will get together again. So the second guitarist wants to start a new band (band 3) with the drummer. I initially asked to join, but ... This quote from a recent thread seems fitting:

Originally Posted by kevteop

I think if you get any group of people together it's going to be hard to avoid at least one of them becoming unbearable within the first year or two.

Most of the issues and discussions that we had in band 1 (even prior to the "other band rift") stem from the second guitarist. I am pretty sure that he costs us gigs, cos he brings an entire entourage to every gig and makes sure they all drink for free. He plays too loud, is stubborn of mind and frankly, at times just not fun to play with. Technically and theoretically, though, he is very gifted.

Recently my dad (who used to sing) bumped into "my" drummer, and they got to talking. The drummer jumped to conclusions and announced that my dad would be singing for band 3. I then suggested we move away from the initial "blues" idea and towards classic / symphonic rock, given that this is where his strength as a singer lie. He's just not a good blues singer. To this, Mr Second Guitarist replied saying the genre's been picked, he knows what he wants and it will be blues with some funky elements.

This made me wonder what the heck I was thinking, wanting to be in band 3 with this guy. I have contacted the drummer of my former band to form a trio. Whilst he is a less good musician than what I have come to be used to, I think it will be more fun than spending more time with Mr Second Guitar, aka He Who Knows What He Wants. On the other hand I have to admit that I have already improved vastly because of his suggestions, explanations and even from the songs he picked for the (now defunct) blues band.

Guess the question here is, what would you do? Join band 3 with a person you know will be a PITA to work with, or leave it and just pursue other avenues? Just to be clear, the trio thing will happen regardless of the other choice.

[boristhespider9]

Kind of hard to follow...

[nortonrider]

I couldn't really figure out what is happening either.

My advice would be,
Ask yourself if playing in the the band is going to make you happy or not.
Your answer will tell you whether you should participate or pass.

[JustDavid]

Originally Posted by EddiePlaysBass

<SNIP>
Guess the question here is, what would you do? Join a band with a person you know will be a PITA to work with, or leave it and just pursue other avenues? Just to be clear, the trio thing will happen regardless of the other choice.

Why would I enter into a project with a known PITA member?
1/ SEVERE financial need
2/ they've kidnapped a family member
3/ SEVERE masochism.

YMMV

[EddiePlaysBass]

Sorry guys I have edited the OP, in hopes of it being clearer. I forget that this makes sense if you're there, but not necessarily so without 2 years of baggage.

[TomCHunley]

Originally Posted by JustDavid

Why would I enter into a project with a known PITA member?
1/ SEVERE financial need
2/ they've kidnapped a family member
3/ SEVERE masochism.

YMMV

It sounds like the PITA did kind of dadnap a singer for Band 3.

[JustDavid]

Originally Posted by TomCHunley

It sounds like the PITA did kind of dadnap a singer for Band 3.

I think G2 is the PITA, & drummer is the dadnapper. I think; that's a hard read.

I still ain't joining a known PITA unless they actually have Dad chained up in the shed.

[bluewine]

Me, personally. It's no secret I have opinions on guys that are full members in multiple bands.

I would never join a band where any of the members were in any other bands.

Blue

[Stewie26]

Wow....my brain is hurting.
I know for me a would be kind of weird being in a band with my dad.
Anyway, IME there is always going to be at least one guy in the band that is a PITA. Sometimes that guy might have even been me.
Every band has some baggage.

[39-Bassist]

Say goodbye to all of them and just start fresh. Keep in good standings with the guys you get along with, you need to keep a list of musicians worth working with, someday they may remember you for a good future project.
If you work with anyone you can't trust, (second guitarist) then don't do it.
Good luck.

[odineye]

Originally Posted by EddiePlaysBass

Most of the issues and discussions that we had in band 1 (even prior to the "other band rift") stem from the second guitarist. I am pretty sure that he costs us gigs, cos he brings an entire entourage to every gig and makes sure they all drink for free. He plays too loud, is stubborn of mind and frankly, at times just not fun to play with. Technically and theoretically, though, he is very gifted.

This right here is enough for me.


I'm not generally an "always" or "never" type of guy but, I've played with far too many of these "Mr. Second Guitarist" types, and it has *always* been a fiasco and has *never* ended well. No matter how hard I tried to make it work. If it were me? I'd take the chance to cut ties now.

[Stumbo]

Sometimes reformatting text helps.

Originally Posted by EddiePlaysBass

Most of the issues and discussions that we had in band 1 (even prior to the "other band rift") stem from the second guitarist. I am pretty sure that he costs us gigs, cos:

1) he brings an entire entourage to every gig
2) makes sure they all drink for free.
3) He plays too loud
4) is stubborn of mind
5) at times just not fun to play with.

Some pluses:
Pros
1) Technically and theoretically, though, he is very gifted.
2) I have to admit that I have already improved vastly because of his suggestions, explanations and even from the songs he picked for the (now defunct) blues band.

There's a TB "three" strikes advice rule:
1) Good hang
2) Good paying gigs
3) Good music

You gotta have at least two to think about sticking with a band.

In your case:
1) No
2) Conditional "No". Good gigs but probably losing gigs due to the guy's attitude/actions.
3) Conditional "No". If you're willing to change from blues to classic/symphonic rock, then playing the blues doesn't mean that much to you.

So, seems like it's time to move on your you.

However, you may have a number 4. on your advice rule: playing with musicians better than yourself. Though he may want you in the band and is willing to teach you because other, more advanced and knowledgeable musicians won't because they're tired of putting up with his crap, just like you've done.

If you are wanting to learn more and willing to put up with his crap for awhile, then you may want to do it. Maybe give him a list of the things you mentioned that he does wrong and tell him that you'll be in the band if he won't do those things anymore. See what he says. Doubt he'll change. You'll still need a lead guitarist and that may be another stumbling block. But, hey, you'll be learning/gigging/making money and that may be enough. Only you can know that.

Just don't know that being in a band with your dad it the way to go.

Good luck.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Actually my dad would not be a negative factor. I've played with him in a band before, and contrary to most expectations, it worked out really well. Our voices even blended nicely where I did backings. Having said that, it is pretty clear to me that my dad will not come out of retirement.

Mr Second Guitar will not change, because most (if not all) issues have been addressed in the past two years. The issue is that "band 1" was the first band he ever played in. He did jam sessions before that, but has zero band experience, which shows in many ways - both how he acts, reacts and his ideas about how to proceed with certain things.

Practical example: he does not want 2 songs in a row in the same key because "the crowd will notice". He'd rather play 7 slow songs in a row if they're all in a different key, than play two uptempo songs in A ...

Guess I am just convincing myself

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by EddiePlaysBass

Practical example: he does not want 2 songs in a row in the same key because "the crowd will notice".

The crowd doesn't even notice that a band is playing, no less the key of the songs.

Blue

[fmoore200]

Originally Posted by bluewine

The crowd doesn't even notice that a band is playing, no less the key of the songs.

Blue

Word. I never met a horn player who didn't want EVERY song in Bb lazy trumpet players lol

But still, even if they don't know what's going on musically, modulation have an effect on the listener, IMO

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by fmoore200

Word. I never met a horn player who didn't want EVERY song in Bb lazy trumpet players lol

But still, even if they don't know what's going on musically, modulation have an effect on the listener, IMO

I remember meeting this chic at a club and we went out for a while. After several weeks of constant coaching, she finally understood that I played bass guitar and the difference between the guitar.

Blue

[oldrocker]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I remember meeting this chic at a club and we went out for a while. After several weeks of constant coaching, she finally understood that I played bass guitar and the difference between the guitar.

Blue

You should have never told her you were only the bass player. If she thought you were a real guitar player she may still be going out with you

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by oldrocker

You should have never told her you were only the bass player. If she thought you were a real guitar player she may still be going out with you

She's been replaced several times.

Blue

[ChrisB2]

Although the situation is still clouded in confusion, the answer seems simple to me.

You have other projects as well as other opportunities. What again are the GOOD reasons you're considering working with a PITA? Never mind, there are none.

[mellowinman]

I think it could be a tenable situation, however with the caveat that if it is going to work it cannot continue. I would say as long as we are going to do it, I am not going to tolerate it, but I will be enthusiastic, if we are going to make sure we are doing it.