Judging People via Email

[hellfleet]

Hey guys, I just wanted to talk about an email conversation I had I with a potential new band leader.

A bit about me, I'm currently living abroad but returning to the UK in september, so I have been looking for bands to play with about then. I got a reply

to one of my adverts from a motorhead-esque 'origionals' hard rock band in the north, he sent me a blurb of bio and a myspace page. I thought the music

sounded great, just my thing and felt quite excited about doing it.

I reminded him that I was away till september, he said thats fine, he'll hold the position open till then. That struck me as a little odd really so I

mentioned about coming for an audition.

I got a rather long winded email back that I'm not going to post due to space but the main part he wanted me to join the band without playing with them:

"
I dont do auditions I'm very against them, I dislike them intensely , I
believe in a more intelligent process, and a more adult way of going about
things, so given that youve got 3 months to talk to me anyway that is long
enough to know if you want to work with me I would have thought, if we're still
getting along after 3 months I think it would be a cert it would work,
There we go, I believe in respect, auditions are not respectful they are very
crass and teach you nothing, the more you carry on in the business the more you
will agree with me. You cant audition character or trustworthiness, which are
every bit as important as musical ability, anybody can play music but not
everybody is trustworthy or of good character or a team player, the focus is on
the wrong thing anyway. I have to tell you in 25 years I've worked with and
talked with probably hundreds of musicians, and out of them, I dont think the
musicians that I would consider to be not able to play would reach more than
10, 99 times out of 100 the people are of either satisfactory or above
satisfactory standard, besides which you can hear tapes and its enough, doesnt
need a 3 act drama. On the other hand how many of them have been loyal and
trustworthy, I doubt I can count them on the fingers of one hand. The longer
you go the more you will agree with me. And the more respect we show to each
other and the more we treat each other as intelligent adults the better we work
together. Auditions are disrespectful and a bit childish and get you off on
the wrong foot all together. Learn that you've learnt about 75% of the music

"

Now I generally feel this is quite a fair attitude and I'm happy that it is working for him, however when i've auditioned members for bands I certainly don't get 99 out of 100 that are up to the job. I do feel he has a good point about character.

So in my reply

"
I'm not sure I agree with you completely there but I think its a fair
and well thought out point of view. Character and trust is as you
said at least as important as ability and I'd like to hope we wouldn't
have any issues there, certainly we should be able to get a good idea
by continued contact. I'm generally quite up-front about things, I
certainly wouldn't expect you to twiddle your thumbs for three months
while I 'make my mind up'.

Perhaps to call it an audition is not the right word, that implies
more of a 'cattle call' type thing which is a bit degrading. I think
whether or not you have a formal audition I think at the first
rehearsal there is still going to be a certain amount of "checking
each other out to see if it fits." On the other hand I can tell a lot from the
recording that you can all clearly play and musically there are
unlikely to be any major issues.

To give an unconditional 'yes' would be difficult for me but it
wouldn't be due to another band for example. The final say for me
would always be when we get together for the first time in the
rehearsal room or the studio to see if things work. On the other hand
this is not entirely realistic. Perhaps a sensible way forward is to
give a few of the songs a go while i'm out here and get an idea for
it, maybe send a track over for you to listen to. If I'm happy then
I'll give a yes, but pending major disaster in the first rehearsals.
On the other hand if it really doesn't work then you wouldn't want me
either! Call it a probation period if you like =)

"

Well, after that I got an email back saying that I'm not the guy for the job, I'm not committed and I don't have enthusiasm for the project.
Really, I think that is quite insulting. Am I being crazy here? Didn't I pretty much comprimise quite a lot and sound quite into it? Surely seeking to be

absolutely sure before investing hours and money into an origionals band would be a sign of commitment? After all it would have been much easier to just say

yes and then 'I quit' later.

The sad thing is I really liked the music, I know I could have absolutely monstered the bass and as far as committment goes I've never had a problem with

that so far, I don't plan to start messing people around. Perhaps, maybe quite likely this guy would have turned out to be a massive ego-maniac and a

nightmare to work with but I can't help feeling a bit pissed off about this. I guess with his '25 years in the music biz' he must be right... right, maybe I

am unenthusiastic?!

So my questions, do you think I displayed a lack of committment in my email?
Did I make a mess of handling the situation?
Or is this guy just an idiot?
Or am I an idiot?

[julio.gamiz]

Hmmm, I'd say the guy is an idiot. I think he couldn't stand the part where you said "We'll see if it works out". Be glad he spared you the three months of waiting before you find out he is a douche, now you can start looking for another band already.

Success

[semajniwdoog]

I would have stayed far away from that project! When showing up for an audition, I am not the only being auditioned. I am in my onw mind auditioning those people as well.

[phatbass]

He's an idiot.

[mjwhit]

If I got that email from you I would have made the judgement that you were clear thinking and professional.

From his email, I judged him as completly unrealistic.

However, some judgements I have made from email/text conversations have turned out very wrong in the past. Some have also been very accurate.

The only way to judge someone is to meet them and talk. More than once if you are judging their personality. Hence the reason some people have a few round of 'auditions'.

Normally its easy to pick out the amazing musician after a few songs. People try to play their best. However, people often put on a bit of a facade when you meet them for the first time, which often turns out to be worse than their real character.

[nemo]

I guess skype conversation with camera would have revealed much of the character after couple of minutes.

[Joe Nerve]

My opinion:

This guy is as loony as they come. He has craploads of issues and there is no way you'd be able to sustain a relationship with him unless you were ready to agree with every single word he says. Even with that you'd be sure to somewhere along the line prove to NOT be the person he wishes you to be - and you'd be gone. And that could be after giving it a year or more of all you've got.

Also, while I somewhat understand his reasoning it sounds like he's looking more for a friend or lover than a musician.

I once had a strange audition where a girl and her producer (with a somewhat decent reputation) had me audition to a recording in a studio sans bass. Next day she left a message congratulating me on getting the part. When I spoke to her she asked if I could commit to it, and I said, "Sure. But I'd like to meet and play with the band first to check it out (none of this new band were on the recording). She was insulted and wanted a definite yes right then and there or I wasn't the guy for the job. I wasn't the guy for the job.

You didn't lose anything. You showed no lack of commitment. You didn't say anything unreasonable. You didn't make a mess out of anything, you fortunately escaped before the mess could begin. This guys an idiot. The only reason you might be a bit of an idiot is for entertaining the possibility after the first email.

[Gintaras]

Scary email

I dealt with a band member who talked like him. He was not very sure of himself and went through a lot of bands or been in bands that went through a lot of people.

[sevenyearsdown]

If people seem schizo in thier email messages (especially musicians), then they probably aren't far off in real life.

[mjwhit]

Originally Posted by idiot

so given that youve got 3 months to talk to me anyway that is long
enough to know if you want to work with me I would have thought, if we're still
getting along after 3 months I think it would be a cert it would work

And what are two strangers ment to email each other about for three months straight anyway?

"Do you like this or that band?"

But then what?

Move on. You have nothing to gain from him.

[hellfleet]

Thanks guys, you've pretty much confirmed what I thought. I should have bailed out immediately when the 2nd contact I get from him turns out to be some sort of lecture.

It makes me wonder if he seems to have so much trouble finding trustworthy or reliable person but has no trouble finding good enough musicians this tells me he has low musical expectations and manages to alienate himself from the majority of new players within a short period of time.

Either way I really don't think it'll be a hard job finding a spot in an origionals band, so its not like he'd be doing me a favour! I've already had quite a few much less annoying responses. I think I can afford to be picky anyway

By the way, I didn't post in the introductions forum but, I'm Ell, long time lurker (about 2 years), first time member

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

My opinion:

This guy is as loony as they come. He has craploads of issues and there is no way you'd be able to sustain a relationship with him unless you were ready to agree with every single word he says.

+1. Also, "anyone can play music but......." ? Hmm....Er, hmm.........

[tycobb73]

I agree with his thoery. But I disagree with his way of handling it. We recently were looking for a drummer. When another TBer Phalex gave a great reccomendation about someone's talent and work ethic we took him without an audition.

[stflbn]

I've played with a lot of guys that I 'like' but hate playing with.

I've played with a lot of guys that I 'dislike' but love playing with.


Happiness for me is somewhere in-between, but if I do not enjoy playing with the people there is no reason for me to be their bass player. And that is impossible to determine without getting together and actually playing.


.

[Tampabass]

Originally Posted by sevenyearsdown

If people seem schizo in thier email messages (especially musicians), then they probably aren't far off in real life .

Exactly - this guy sounds like the band/musician version of a psycho girlfriend - - wanting some kind of ginormous commitment without even finding out if you're compatible, on personal or musical levels. All the signs of someone more interested in emotional/psychological drama than making good music together. You're right to stay far away from him.