Just kicked singer out...need TB advice!!!

EBMatt · #1 06-17-2008, 08:54 AM

Hey TB'ers. Just needed some advice. So this past week, the band had a really ugly blow out with our singer. It definitely didn't go the way we wanted it too and it definitely didn't end on a good note either. Either way, we are going to give him 1/5 of what is in the band fund and go our separate ways. But, last night he texted all of us and said that he wants us to take all of the songs down off the myspace page since they have his voice on them and he also wants 1/5 of the CD's that we have.

Now I just really want to make sure that our bases are covered here and need some advice from people who have gone through similar situations. We are NOT going to take the songs down off the myspace page and we are NOT going to give him 1/5 of the CD's. Here's why. 5 of the 6 songs on our CD were fully written by us and not him. 4 of those 5 were written before he was even in the band. The one song he wrote was re-written by us as a band. Now he added a few words and lines here and there in the songs, but the main hooks, choruses, verses, etc. were written by us, namely one of our guitarists, who happens to be a fantastic singer and songwriter himself and was pretty much the second singer in the band. Also, all of the songs, including the one the ex-singer wrote and we re-wrote, were copyrighted under the band, specifically the main songwriter in the band that I just spoke of. Also the song that our ex-singer originally wrote isn't on the myspace page right now and we don't plan on putting it up.

Like I said I just need some advice and want to make sure that our bases are covered here.

I don't want to get into the details of what the singer did to get himself kicked out, so we'll just leave it as he has been doing some things that have held the band back along with doing some personally hurtful things to one of the band members (not me).

51m0n · #2 06-17-2008, 09:05 AM

Assuming you have properly copyrighted this (whatever that entails in the US) as you say you have then he's got no way of stopping you have those songs in that form.

Did he solely pay for the recording? Including paying the musicians - no.

Did he write the material? Including the music - no.

He may have more right to 1/5th of the CDs though...

BTW checked out the MySpace page and can see why he would want the association - its very nicely done material mate. Well done!

chuckjones93 · #3 06-17-2008, 09:11 AM

I have been through this very thing. If you did properly copyright everything, through the library of congress, then you can tell him to pound sand down a rat hole.

He has no legal claim to anything. Of course, if there is a lot of money involved, you should consult a lawyer before telling him to step off.

EBMatt · #4 06-17-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51m0n

Assuming you have properly copyrighted this (whatever that entails in the US) as you say you have then he's got no way of stopping you have those songs in that form.

Did he solely pay for the recording? Including paying the musicians - no.

Did he write the material? Including the music - no.

He may have more right to 1/5th of the CDs though...

BTW checked out the MySpace page and can see why he would want the association - its very nicely done material mate. Well done!

Thanks for your input and the kind words!

The material was copyrighted properly. You are right, he did not solely pay for the recording and wrote only a fraction of the material. As for having 1/5 of the CD's, my only gripe with that is the CD's are copyrighted under us (namely the song writer) to begin with. So when he sells them, he is making profit off what is copyrighted under us. Also this is why we are giving him 1/5 of the band fund.

EBMatt · #5 06-17-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckjones93

I have been through this very thing. If you did properly copyright everything, through the library of congress, then you can tell him to pound sand down a rat hole.

He has no legal claim to anything. Of course, if there is a lot of money involved, you should consult a lawyer before telling him to step off.

That's what I thought. Yea, there isn't too much money at stake anyway. We are still a local band trying to make it in the world, but we do have alot of things going for us. For example, one of our songs is begin used on ESPN.

51m0n · #6 06-17-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBMatt

Thanks for your input and the kind words!

The material was copyrighted properly. You are right, he did not solely pay for the recording and wrote only a fraction of the material. As for having 1/5 of the CD's, my only gripe with that is the CD's are copyrighted under us (namely the song writer) to begin with. So when he sells them, he is making profit off what is copyrighted under us. Also this is why we are giving him 1/5 of the band fund.

Did he put in 1/5th of the funds required to make those CDs?

Include recording, mixing, mastering, pressing, transport anything you can think of as a cost associated with those CDs include time spent. If you give him the corresponding fraction with the breakdown of costs put in by him verses the rest of the band as a good will parting gesture you are done.

He has a right to make a profit for the work he put in as much as anyone in the band - it may be hard to see that right now but its true!

EBMatt · #7 06-17-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51m0n

Did he put in 1/5th of the funds required to make those CDs?

Include recording, mixing, mastering, pressing, transport anything you can think of as a cost associated with those CDs include time spent. If you give him the corresponding fraction with the breakdown of costs put in by him verses the rest of the band as a good will parting gesture you are done.

He has a right to make a profit for the work he put in as much as anyone in the band - it may be hard to see that right now but its true!

He fronted some money for the recording, but was fully paid back a while ago. He did not front any money for pressing either. I feel what you are saying though.

51m0n · #8 06-17-2008, 09:21 AM

Put it another way. If you had sold all those CDs then he would be entitled to 1/5th of the profit in the band fund - you've already agreed to this.

So how is he nt entitled to 1/5th of the cds before they are sold?

Not trying to p1ss you off, just trying to follow the logic...

EBMatt · #9 06-17-2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51m0n

Put it another way. If you had sold all those CDs then he would be entitled to 1/5th of the profit in the band fund - you've already agreed to this.

So how is he nt entitled to 1/5th of the cds before they are sold?

Not trying to p1ss you off, just trying to follow the logic...

Oh no man, you aren't pissing me off, this is helpful.

I feel what you are saying. I'm thinking of calculating 1/5 of the potential profit from the remaining CD's and just giving him that along with the 1/5 of the band fund. I would rather do something like that then give him 1/5 of the actual CD's. Whatcha think?

51m0n · #10 06-17-2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBMatt

He fronted some money for the recording, but was fully paid back a while ago. He did not front any money for pressing either. I feel what you are saying though.

OK cool. I'm done you cleared this up right here!

Screw him

EBMatt · #11 06-17-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51m0n

OK cool. I'm done you cleared this up right here!

Screw him

LOL

51m0n · #12 06-17-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBMatt

Oh no man, you aren't pissing me off, this is helpful.

I feel what you are saying. I'm thinking of calculating 1/5 of the potential profit from the remaining CD's and just giving him that along with the 1/5 of the band fund. I would rather do something like that then give him 1/5 of the actual CD's. Whatcha think?

That 1/5 of the profit would be a very gentlemanly thing to do. I think if he didnt actually put any money into the recording though his claim is tenous really.

51m0n · #13 06-17-2008, 09:30 AM

I'd also make it official that he can use those recordings to further his career in terms of his own myspace page etc until such time that he has replacements and no further. But could not take any profit from those recordings directly (ie bootlegging the copy he has at home and distributing it for free etc)

Bassic83 · #14 06-17-2008, 09:41 AM

Can you shorten the MySpace clips by 20%? That would be his 1/5 that isn't there. You could then tell him to pound sand doing it that way, too.

Or, just have him killed.

EBMatt · #15 06-17-2008, 09:44 AM

Thanks for the advice guys. I just wanted to double check my thoughts and opinions before we had to play hardball with him. I think it would be fair to let him post the song he originally wrote on his own myspace page to further his career and, like you said, take it down once he has a new group. As for 1/5 of the potential profit of the CD's, I'm not totally sold on that thought, but it is definitely a good idea.

EBMatt · #16 06-17-2008, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassic83

Can you shorten the MySpace clips by 20%? That would be his 1/5 that isn't there. You could then tell him to pound sand doing it that way, too.

Or, just have him killed.

Hahahaha

mdiddium · #17 06-17-2008, 10:08 AM

How do you guys sell your CDs? In other words, do local record shops buy copies at cost and sell for their retail price? Or do they sell more on a consignment type of deal? The reason I ask is because you could treat your ex-singer the same way. Since he already has a personal copy after the record was finished (I assume), then he may want 1/5 of the other copies to use in getting himself another gig (promotional copies).

If that's not the case, then why does he want the CDs? Does he feel that he owns 1/5 of that CD? If so, then you already have that answered. He does not hold the copyrights and did not pay for the pressing, so he has no claim on the physical CD or it's contents.

As far as paying him off on 1/5 of potential CD profits, I think that's bogus. You cannot guarantee x amount of units sold so there is no way to determine a fair figure to pay him. If anything, I think he should charged the cost of 1/5 of the CDs (or just deduct it from 1/5 of the band funds coming to him) simply because he'll be using them (presumably) for a) self-promotion or b) selling the copies himself for profit.

IanStephenson · #18 06-17-2008, 11:06 AM

Give him 1/5 of the CD's. He's entitled to a share of assets. They're not worth anything till you sell them - or he sells them (promoting the band in the process). Better to gave him them and keep him happy, than give him money you don't have on advance sales of something you might not sell.

Agree to let him have the CD's in exchange for letting you keep the stuff on myspace. If that doesn't fly, agree a timescale (say 6 months)to remove/re-record all songs with his vocals on. Give him something hne wants o get what you want...

JPaulGeddy · #19 06-17-2008, 11:14 AM

I would probably just give him the CDs just to be rid of the pain in the ass. But, that's why guys get screwed over in divorces.

canshaker · #20 06-17-2008, 11:17 AM

If he's out of the band, he's OUT OF THE BAND. He forfeits his rights to anything in the band that is not protected by copywrite laws.

If you (hypothetically) got fired from McDonalds, would you get 1/5 of the fries?

If his initial investment was returned, then you are MORE that in the clear.

Answer me these two questions:
Is it called "the band fund"?

Is he in the band?

Sorry if this seems harsh, and a hardline approach, but business is business.

Good luck.