Lead singer problems, help please!!

Leftybass12 · #1 09-05-2009, 10:19 AM

My friend and I have been a two piece band for around 8 months now. About a month ago we brought a singer into the mix, he is a good friend of mine and knows a little bit about music.....which is to say he can sing due to years of choir. My problems is this, first some backstory is needed.....My friend and I asked the singer if he has any lyrics with him. The singer said yes, but he also said he had a whole "arrangement" with it, it was only a guitar "arrangement." The singer was humming the guitar part. My friend and I were trying to figure out what notes he was humming. (Good thing is that we found what two chords he was singing within). After he left I basically said "screw it, I'm going to come up with something on my own using those two chords." We presented to him a few days later and he reaction was "that's good, but what happened to what I did?"

MY QUESTION IS THIS: How do I tell my friend, the lead singer, that because of his lacking in musical knowledge he needs to leave the music writing to my guitar friend and I and he can really only write lyrics? The reason I ask is because it's 11:18 AM and I am going to tell him in two hours.

Clank · #2 09-05-2009, 10:30 AM

You tell him.
He decides he doesn't want to be a puppet.
He quits.
That's how I see it going down.

RenoEvan · #3 09-05-2009, 10:34 AM

IMO it's needlessly offputting to tell him he can't or shouldn't write music; instead just tell him that humming it isn't sufficient, and describe what you'd need instead for it to be effective.
For example, he could get a $20 casio keyboard or a $40 guitar off ebay, and use them to figure out the notes he wants used in his songs, and then provide you either key names or fret numbers to describe a simple chord progression, which you could then work into a proper song.
Then, if he thinks that's too much trouble, he can decide to let you guys do the writing. If not, at least you can see what he's describing and give it a try. Who knows, maybe there's some good music stuck in his head? If not, you can write your own, and tell him you think it's better (and then cross yet another timeless band hurdle...)
Good Luck!

xgator4u · #4 09-05-2009, 11:41 AM

Humming?!?!? Please. Tell him you are not a mind reader. If he can not articulate what it is he has in mind, then you will have no alternative but to write the music from scratch.

Beej · #5 09-05-2009, 11:52 AM

Two of our recent singers worked this way. Humming out what they thought would be accompanying music to their vocals. Both of them were dead wrong. The first guy walked because he couldn't see past his own ego. The second guy worked with what we turned it into. He recognized that he can't play an instrument but has a good ear, and left the music side of things to the rest of the musicians...

Jason P Bass · #6 09-05-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RenoEvan

For example, he could get a $20 casio keyboard or a $40 guitar off ebay, and use them to figure out the notes he wants used in his songs, and then provide you either key names or fret numbers to describe a simple chord progression, which you could then work into a proper song.

DING. Winner.

going into pure speculation mode, the singer may feel insecure about how cool his original compositions are. He wants to share, but it's hard to make a good first impression with no music or anything. He tries to hum some harmonies or chord changes or whatever, but when that doesn't immediately turn into complete success, he goes right back to feeling insecure and bails on the whole process.

Meanwhile, it's very difficult for you to pick out what he's humming and turn it into a proper piece of music.

You guys need to find some meeting in the middle ground. If the singer can single-finger some parts on a casio keyboard, you'll be in much better shape.

**Stumbo** · #7 09-05-2009, 12:10 PM

I suggest recording everything you do with or w/o the singer. Then you'll be able to review everything and even get more ideas.

You can also let the singer know that not every song is perfect the first time it gets hummed, written down, played, etc. There's a development phase involved and if you agree, where everyone contributes. The song may morph into something much different than when you started. The point is that everyone can be creative and contribute.

If the singer only wants to hear what is in his head, you'll have to discuss your songwriting arrangement and possibly let him know that it's a partnership not a dictatorship.

Good luck.

Leftybass12 · #8 09-05-2009, 06:32 PM

To everyone....thank you for your input and suggestions. I told him everything and he completely understood. He told me that he would collaberate and compromise and that he would back off and only give suggestions when he felt it was necessary. Basically when he would make vocal melodies when we are recording, which I do agree with, I mean he can't be some cow herded in whatever direction the guitarist and I want. I failed to mention this, but he does know the notes on the piano, but can't play it very well, so I gave him a keyboard of mine and told him if he has a thoughts or whatever in his head go to the keyboard and start doodling around. Good suggestion RenoEvan. We'll see how this goes.....I guess the good thing is that after this he went into another room in the house with the keyboard and came back 30 minutes later with some material.

xgator4u · #9 09-05-2009, 06:42 PM

^ Now that is what I'm talking about. Keep us posted brother.

tdoody · #10 09-05-2009, 06:48 PM

hey it sounds like you guys came to a great decision.
back in the mid 60's i was a singer, who did not play an instrument.
the guitar player and i worked together to write some songs. i would hum my ideas, and he would work with it.
bottom line.
we wrote 3 top 5 hits together.
be patient with the singer.
tdx

Beej · #11 09-06-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdoody

hey it sounds like you guys came to a great decision.
back in the mid 60's i was a singer, who did not play an instrument.
the guitar player and i worked together to write some songs. i would hum my ideas, and he would work with it.
bottom line.
we wrote 3 top 5 hits together.
be patient with the singer.
tdx

And you just leave us hanging like that?!

What were the hits and who are you?!!

Inquiring minds want to know...

TBrett · #12 09-06-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beej

And you just leave us hanging like that?!

What were the hits and who are you?!!

Inquiring minds want to know...

+1

As a singer and songwriter with only basic guitar knowledge, I'm intrigued! I do use the guitar to write/work out the basic chords so that I'm not having to hum everything to the other band members. However, there are still times when I have to resort to humming, and they don't seem to have any problem taking my idea and running with it. Good to know that this method can result in finished (and successful) work if you've got the right group.

ForSix · #13 09-07-2009, 12:01 PM

Why don't you all just learn to read music and have him write it down?

Leftybass12 · #14 09-07-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForSix

Why don't you all just learn to read music and have him write it down?

The guitarist and I can read music and know theory, the singer however has very limited knowledge of theory

Rattman · #15 09-07-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xgator4u

^ Now that is what I'm talking about. Keep us posted brother.

Hey yeah, ya did real good with that somewhat "touchy" situation. You are diplomatic material for sure. I'm sure the singer will step up his side of the equation after that little revelation . . . nice . .