Lead singer rehearsal issues (long)

[invader3k]

OK, so this will be a "been there, done that" read for most people, but I thought I'd share.

Joined a new cover group a couple months back, after calling it quits with the cover group I'd been with for eight years. New group has a keyboard player, and two female lead singers (you can probably see where this is going). Perfect, as this was the kind of group I'd been wanting to play with for quite a while...plus, it's all new songs that I've never played before. It's been a challenge, but I've basically gotten the whole set list (about 40 songs) down in that amount of time since joining. We usually practice twice a week, so that helps.

The problem is the singers. They are both decent vocally, and of course, are pretty easy on the eyes. That isn't the issue. The issue is that neither of them seem to have the lyrics down, or even the "feel" of the songs down, in some cases. They use lyric sheets all the time at practice...that wouldn't bother me if they were just occasionally glancing at them, but for many songs, it turns into more of a song reading than a song rehearsal.

They also get thrown off track really easily...I've heard them say stuff like "I got thrown off because there's a weird spacing on the sheet between these two verses." Um, OK...but if you've been in this band for several months before I even joined, shouldn't you have it down by now? I keep telling them they need to ditch the sheets and learn the songs so they have an actual "feel" for how they go, but they don't seem to listen.

One of them has been worse than the other, and acting pretty "diva-ish". She went on vacation last week, and claimed she was going to work on the material while she was gone. I knew this was probably BS...of course, she got back this past week and admitted she didn't do any homework at all. Most annoying part was that she acted like this wasn't any big deal. I'm sure the guitarist and drummer were pissed, since they made a special trip out to her house (about an hour drive) to make sure she had all her stuff before she left.

We've also suggested that they get together on a non-band practice night to go over their parts together, themselves, but I don't think the one is going to go for it, which is frustrating. She's the same one that kept claiming "I have all my parts down" before she went on vacation. She doesn't, and everyone in the band knows it.

The songs aren't that hard...yes, we're doing a few more obscure numbers. However, I guess I feel that if I can get down that many songs in such a short time, none of which I've ever played before, they should know where to come in on the chorus of a Veruca Salt song we've been doing for months by now

Anyway, I'm not looking for any specific advice. No one is getting kicked out of the band right now. We're planning on gigging out by the end of this month, whether they're ready or not. It will be a fairly low-key gig for little or no pay, so if they screw up, so be it, I guess. I worry, though, that they don't realize how different playing live is going to be. Maybe it will be a wake up call, or maybe not. We'll see.

[ysand]

Just talk to the other band members about this, and then to the 2 singers. Let them know that since the gigging time is comin, they should start learning the lyrics by heart

[nubs]

hmm to me, it shows a true level of commitment. I would simply ask or state...."you surely aren't planning on using your cheat sheets for the shows, are you?" and then let them know its unexeptable, if we learn a new tune i might have a cheat sheet but, only used as a safety net in case i get a case of the brain lock. time to find out what these gals really plan on "putting into this project" is my .02's


rock on wisconsin!

[invader3k]

Oh, we've told them, repeatedly. We were actually supposed to start gigging next Saturday, but it's clear the band isn't quite ready yet, so we're holding off for at least a couple more weeks.

[scottmabe]

Yup...been there, done that ....

And what is such a drag about this kind of gig is that the band ends choosing sides.

We had a female singer, not so easy on the eyes but man could sing...no notes ..she was great. THEN the guitarist met a hottie...

Then the fun began, she was a karaoke queen who didn't know squat. Put us behind 6 months trying to find a place for her, frustrations abounded....

I guess the funniest/saddest part was alcohol/vicodin induced catfight after the last gig we played together !! At least they waited until after the gig !!

But I put it down to experience ... but I still have ZERO RESPECT for karaoke queens...they "know" the songs but in the wrong keys...change the key and they are as lost as a blind dog in a meathouse.

[ric1312]

Best way, I think, to get them to memorize the lyrics and really learn the song is to plant the image of public ebarrassment in their heads. Slyly suggest how unprepared, unprofessional and uncool they will look in front of people when they play out if they have to use lyric sheets and miss parts. You said one was acting like a diva. Most divas have delusions of granduer. Just add in that you never see a famous soandso with a lyric sheet.


And seriously, they are only singing, most of the bands I've played in people doubled on instruments and had to learn all the lyrics and memorize them, just so they can play at the same time.

Also, they need to start practiceing without the lyric sheets at band practice. Otherwise they are a crutch. They probably already know the lyrics but are using them as a crutch. If they don't get rid of them at practice and try to get rid of them in front of people the first time, they WILL forget the lyrics or miss a part because of stage jitters or juts being used to looking at a sheet of paper and not the audience.

It's only what 40 songs, and they probably switch off lead right?

If all else fails set up a lap top as a lyric promptor. You can put each lyric sheet in a different file they can click.

[Modulator]

Have a dress rehearsal where you set up and do video of the "show." The ladies will see how ridiculous they look reading off of cheat sheets, and I'll wager that you'll all see little things you do that need to be fixed.

[Smallmouth_Bass]

You'll have to institute some no lyric sheet dress rehearsals well before the first show.

[rappa29]

Been there done that as recent as ths past January with 2 different singers.

Neither could memorize lyrics and would get lost because they weren't 'feeling' the tunes. We're not talking complicated stuff here either (classical rock).

The first guy we ended up mutually agreeing to part ways on good terms.

The second guy, we toughed it out and booked our first gig with him in January. Long story short, he ended up completely botching the 2nd set. He'd turn around and ask us what his next line was. He'd sing the verses in the wrong places. He'd miss the changes. He'd try to get one of us fill the gaps for him by singing. Totally freakin' disaster. It was like watching your drunk uncle try to sit in with the band at your cousin's wedding.

Anyhow, if they're not willing to familiarize themselves with the lyrics and learn to feel the tunes, then start looking for new singers. It's a pain going through the audition process, but ultimately better in the long run when you finally find that 'one' who has it all together.

But then again, once you find them, they'll have some other issues like a serious addiction, passive\aggressive personality, etc....

[Gintaras]

Originally Posted by Smallmouth_Bass

You'll have to institute some no lyric sheet dress rehearsals well before the first show.

I sing in a 25 piece barbershop chorus and when learning new tunes the director will say that next week the sheet music stays in the bag!! When reading you are not paying attention to the director or the rest of the group. Focus needs to be on the collective!!

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Gintaras

I sing in a 25 piece barbershop chorus and when learning new tunes the director will say that next week the sheet music stays in the bag!! When reading you are not paying attention to the director or the rest of the group. Focus needs to be on the collective!!

I hate to derail the thread, but if you have any recordings of that Chorus, I'd love for you to send them to me! Huge fan of barbershop!



I would go for the "video" dress rehersal, once they see how dumb they look, they'll snap to attention.

[Depth_Charge]

Originally Posted by invader3k

The songs aren't that hard...yes, we're doing a few more obscure numbers. However, I guess I feel that if I can get down that many songs in such a short time, none of which I've ever played before, they should know where to come in on the chorus of a Veruca Salt song we've been doing for months by now

Anyway, I'm not looking for any specific advice. No one is getting kicked out of the band right now. We're planning on gigging out by the end of this month, whether they're ready or not. It will be a fairly low-key gig for little or no pay, so if they screw up, so be it, I guess. I worry, though, that they don't realize how different playing live is going to be. Maybe it will be a wake up call, or maybe not. We'll see.

We had a singer like the one you describe once. Always came unprepared, didn't know the music and often someone would have to say "vocal" to queue her in. We put up with the for 4 weeks before letting her go. She was cool with it but it was frustrating all the same.

I'm not sure about your area, but in Perth I'd be wary of "if we/they suck, so be it" type gigs. Bar managers and venue owners tend to talk among themselves and bad reputations get around faster than bad bands can counter them. Just something to consider...

And on a completely unrelated note, the song you're playing by Veruca Salt wouldn't be Seether by any chance??? If it is I could use some help playing it so PM me

[pin_head_47]

I'd say that if it really comes down to it, and they haven't come through yet, find a small gig to do (like you mentioned, low key, probably no pay, just for fun) and let them totally embarrass themselves. Tell them it's going to be video-taped, so you all have something to "learn" from, and just let them do whatever they want. Then hold it over their heads from now on to remind them what happens when you don't prepare.

[RandomHandle]

certain lead singers are prima donnas and nothing can be done about it.

ive found it beneficial to work with singers who at least play an instrument of some sort ,
even if only at home for fun.

simply a higher chance of that person understanding the need to practice on their instrument,
which in a singers case is their voice. ive worked with people who actuallu do stretching exercises, and actually practice major and minor arpeggios and such , ive also worked with people who show up with a couple beers in em already ,immediatley screech out an ac dc number and then wonder why their throat hurts.

iow if im singing lead on a certain tune and ask the "singer" to harmonize a major third above and they look at me like ive spoken latin, the audition is over

and yeah they should know the tunes if they expect you to.

[GreggBummer]

If the band hasn't gigged yet, try this.

Show up early to rehearsal, and set the band up so you are in an "onstage" kind of way. Then set up a video camera, and record the entire rehearsal. Play through every song like it is a performance... don't stop if there is a mistake. Dress rehearsal.

Give the video to singers.

Sometimes, seeing yourself make the mistakes is a wakeup call.

[Woodchuck]

Been there, done that! Here's what the band did: we turned it into an "us vs. them" thing, and got REALLY tight. After about 5 or 6 "The band was really tight, but the singers.....", they got the point. One got his act together, and the girl quit. As for the video tape idea: that is THE best thing to do. Once a person sees themself looking like a rock n roll moron, they'll get the picture in 3D!

[nortonrider]

Two Women?
Man, that's just asking for it.
Like they say: If it has tits or tires, it's gonna give you problems.

[RandomHandle]

Originally Posted by pin_head_47

I'd say that if it really comes down to it, and they haven't come through yet, find a small gig to do (like you mentioned, low key, probably no pay, just for fun) and let them totally embarrass themselves. Tell them it's going to be video-taped, so you all have something to "learn" from, and just let them do whatever they want. Then hold it over their heads from now on to remind them what happens when you don't prepare.

oohhh, i couldnt do that personally. id be ashamed to have crowd see that and worry about owner never taking me seriously ever again.

might not be a bad idea to have a "dress rehearsal".

invite 15 friends to the rehearsal room to be the crowd.
put on a SHOW.

a few of their good friends simply asking them why they are using cheat sheets might get the point across without the rest of the band having to embarass themselves, and possibly without a confrontation. good luck

[invader3k]

Originally Posted by rappa29

Long story short, he ended up completely botching the 2nd set. He'd turn around and ask us what his next line was. He'd sing the verses in the wrong places. He'd miss the changes. He'd try to get one of us fill the gaps for him by singing. Totally freakin' disaster.

Ugh...I've been there, done that, too. Last May, actually...we tried adding a singer we thought we could kind of convert from a country karaoke singer to a rock singer. Big mistake. We thought he was prepared, but basically ended up being the same scenario you described, almost exactly. The aggravating thing was that the drummer (who had been pushing for this gig and booked it) didn't understand why we had to jump suddenly from verse to chorus a bunch of times. He also didn't get why we decided to pack it in about 20 minutes early at the end of the night. I guess he was oblivious to the total car wreck around him.

That's the one thing I worry about more than anything. When the audience is out there, they're focusing on the singers. If they blow it, or start changing the structure of the song at will, there's not much the band can do. I don't get nervous before gigs, but this is the one thing that worries me at this point. I could see one of them just panicking and running off stage or something stupid like that.

Lot of good advice in this thread. I do like the idea of video taping a rehearsal before hand. They could both use a good kick in the pants.

As far as the first gig...the plan is to play under a "fake band name" for the first few gigs until we get really tight. Then we're going to bust out the full stage show and stuff when we're ready. Sounds stupid, maybe, but there are enough places to play around here where I think it could work.

Oh, and for the poster who asked, we're doing "Volcano Girls", not "Seether", sorry. (Though I actually like that song a lot, FWIW!)

[Marley's Ghost]

I avoid bands with female lead vocalists. I hate to generalize, but 90% of the bands I have been in with females have gone down in flames. Common causes:

1) Narcissistic Personality Disorder
2) Relationship spawns with someone else in the band
3) Boyfriend/Hubby throws a wrench into the works