Learn the song Drummer! Is this too much to ask?

[tdub0199]

I have heard several bands play live and not play what they had recorded..... Example: When I saw Roger Waters on his last tour, he was not playing what was recorded on most of the PF albums..... and Yes I know Gilmour recorded a lot of Rogers bass lines.....

[Jawbone]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

What do the other guys say? If you don't get support then you have a choice to make.

If you're still getting all the gigs you can handle, doubt 99% of the audience can hear any difference let alone tell the difference or even care about it.

If the other members are not worrying about it, maybe you shouldn't.And, if you keep on complaining, they may end up talking about replacing you.

I'm just sayin'...



Don't worry, be happy.

+1 Usually by the second set the crowd really doesn't care, serious if you're in a bar scene and think the crowd cares you're in the wrong business. If you're in the studio making a record then that totally different. A lot of drumming is improv. Have fun

Sounds like you're a perfectionist in the wrong band if the other cats don't care.

[obimark]

IME, I decide what songs to learn note-for note and which not to.
For instance my band is thinking about adding What's your name by LS. Now for those that don't know it Leon Wilkerson was a MONSTER bass player. and this song is a great example, it is a really tough boogie type line that changes up all the time, and unless you use a ton of open strings, is ALL over the fretboard.
As we are mainly playing this song to shut up the skynyrd yellers, I am debating simplifying this part greatly. Somewhere between straight eight notes and the original complex part. While retaining signature riffs like the opening and chorus parts. IMO it is completely fine to play it my own way so long as it sounds good in the band context.
Your drummer is the same thing, if what he is playing works that is one thing, if it doesn't that is another.
Our drummer seems to leave out some nice fills as well which I have politely mentioned from time to time.

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

And comments like this are why these threads always end badly.

Why? What's wrong with that comment

What, are there no bored cover musicians who play different lines because they're bored? If such people exist, they benefit by having more fun changing the otherwise boring parts.

Are you saying there are no lazy musicians? If there is just one, he benefits from ignoring his lessons and playing his own parts, whatever he feels like playing.

Do you think there are no unskilled musicians playing in local cover bands? If there are any, they certainly are helped by playing the simple lines they are able to play instead of fumbling through those they can't.

I really fail to see what was wrong or untrue about the comment, unless you took it personally, like I was saying you are any of the above. If so I apologize, I didn't mean that. How could I make that evaluation? I don't even know you.

My point was that there is value derived by these people from not having to play a song as it was recorded. Other than the benefits to them, however, I don't see how a local working cover band benefits from changing the arrangements (short of making a great rearrangement that the audience likes, which I referenced in the very same post).

If I'm wrong, please enlighten me with a substantive response...

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by obimark

While retaining signature riffs like the opening and chorus parts.

This is the important part.

I agree a song doesn't have to be note-for-note, but IMO the typical listener expects to hear those signature parts.

Remember, OP's drummer is not trying to retain the signature parts. He's not even playing a song using the same pattern the same way twice. Plus, he won the spot with a faithful recreation, then reverted to his utility beats.

Is anyone really defending this drummer???

[baileyboy]

Originally Posted by Lowactnsatsfctn

...practice is what you do at home, This is rehearsal when every one meets together...

+1

I left my last band for this reason. For any new tunes, the drummer and I would diligently work out our parts all week. When we came together for rehearsals, the rhythm guitarist would ask me what the chords were. The lead guitarist/keyboardist was even worse... he would ask me what key a song was in!

The drummer and I parted ways with them after a particularly horrible gig. We have now joined with a phenomenal rhythm/lead guiatrist and a dedicated vocalist. After only 3 practices, we are just a few songs short of having 3 sets ready for gigging!

[NYCbassist]

Originally Posted by obimark

IME, I decide what songs to learn note-for note and which not to.
For instance my band is thinking about adding What's your name by LS. Now for those that don't know it Leon Wilkerson was a MONSTER bass player. and this song is a great example, it is a really tough boogie type line that changes up all the time, and unless you use a ton of open strings, is ALL over the fretboard.
As we are mainly playing this song to shut up the skynyrd yellers, I am debating simplifying this part greatly. Somewhere between straight eight notes and the original complex part. While retaining signature riffs like the opening and chorus parts. IMO it is completely fine to play it my own way so long as it sounds good in the band context.
Your drummer is the same thing, if what he is playing works that is one thing, if it doesn't that is another.
Our drummer seems to leave out some nice fills as well which I have politely mentioned from time to time.

I just learned this song pretty much note for note. Trust me it's worth every minute you invest learning it. Skynrd is one of the bands where I do everything in my power to learn it exactly. This is out of respect for the greatness of the bass lines. I can not stand seeing bass players "Butcher" LS. Not that you are going to butcher it. The open string work is amazing. Okay: Back to the Drummer bashing procedures.

[Biggbass]

Originally Posted by Edward G.

You realize that's his strategy, don't you?

That's funny. You could be right about that though. But there is one song (one of mine) that I've been asking him to accent one part of the song and he never gets it right. Last time we rehearsed he blew through that small section again, without the accent beats, and at the end of the song I asked him to just play the accent beats for me..just once...so I'll know he knows what I'm asking him to do. He refused to play it again and said he'd get it right at the upcoming gig. So two nights later, at the gig, we play the song. When we get to the section of the song with those accents he attacked it like Keith Moon doing a drum solo and completely sabotaged the song. I ignored it and played on. But during tear down and load out I said nothing to him and just left and went home. The next day I had a chat with our BL about it. I hate to pull the 'My sandbox and you can't play in it" bit, but Bottom line is...it's my song and I want it played a certain way...period. Ok ...off the soapbox and back to work before I get PO'd over this again.

[plankspanker13]

Originally Posted by Groovy_Gravy

Eh, i wont comment on what the guy should do but Iwill say that your music views go completely against mine... exact covers suck and take 0 creativity..make it your own...

THIS...unless the beat IS the song, in which case, the band is better served in making more effort.

[obimark]

We are also doing "longview" by Greenday- which is going to be my drummers litmus test, because I just don't see this song working without the signature drumbeat (and signature baseline).

[Edward G.]

Originally Posted by Groovy_Gravy

Eh, i wont comment on what the guy should do but Iwill say that your music views go completely against mine... exact covers suck and take 0 creativity..make it your own...

Originally Posted by plankspanker13

THIS...unless the beat IS the song, in which case, the band is better served in making more effort.

Now we're getting somewhere. Try playing reggae to a rock beat because the drummer hasn't studied what makes a reggae beat different. And that's a whole genre. Specific songs abound that are defined by their beats. It's not a small thing.

[dannylectro]

Sludge... I read most of the posts here, and I play in a 70's - 80's cover band. We cover over 150 songs, and can easily do a - mostly - all requests night. There are songs we cover *exactly* because we know that's what our audience wants to hear, and songs we *interpret* - or make our own - because we play them BETTER than the original. And so says our audience. Pick and choose your battles. And you're right - we ALL come completely rehearsed, we all get along, help each other figure the hard parts out, and now we make money, play nothing but good gigs on Fridays & Saturdays - and have enough time to do independent original projects on the side. Working stuff out on your own time, being rehearsed, is absolutely the way to be, for every member of the band. We learn every song the way it was written and THEN we stretch it out if appropriate.

[pushbuttonfour]

Why is it always the drummers? :eyeroll:

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

If I'm wrong, please enlighten me with a substantive response...

"... I just can't see the value in changing the arrangement of a cover song in a typical local working cover band... except to a bored, lazy, or unskilled musician..."

If you don't understand why some find this offensive I doubt I could explain it to you. I've worked with plenty of musicians that did their own arrangements of some songs that weren't bored, lazy or unskilled. You are making a gross generalization.

I find it interesting that the people who want to take creative liberties don't tell everyone else that they have to, but the people who want to play exactly like the original insist that everyone else has to also. Do your own thing and quit worrying about what everyone else is doing.

[mpdd]

if you are playing real riff oriented stuff and you have to constantly navigate between no fills and the singer singing the wrong part it kind of exasperates the whole situation, i either need to sing or program the drums as a backing type track

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

Those who like to "play it your way" and have discussed this with your band and your band agrees and that's what you do, I have some questions; do you spend time creating parts that are different but better than or equal to the original?

Sometimes.

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

Or do you sometimes find yourself playing something different just because it's easier than the record?

Sometimes.

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

Or do you just like to play whatever falls under your fingers naturally and think it's just as good?

Sometimes.

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

Who is the judge of the quality of your interpretation of the song?

The guy handing out the money at the end of the night.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

I'm not trying to be a jerk... I just can't see the value in changing the arrangement of a cover song in a typical local working cover band... except to a bored, lazy, or unskilled musician...

So which is the guy who has to learn 30 cover songs he's never played before in 24 hours - bored, lazy or unskilled?

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by ronlitz

Aren't all of the professional musicians in every symphony orchestra playing the music in front of them exactly as written?

No.

I can't imagine anyone who has ever played in an orchestra would think that.

Generally you're playing it exactly as the CONDUCTOR wants it - sometimes totally different tempos than written, different dynamics, added ritard/accelerando, movements added or removed, starting/ending in different points in the song, and on and on...

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by aborgman

So which is the guy who has to learn 30 cover songs he's never played before in 24 hours - bored, lazy or unskilled?

Haha, good one! But, like my earlier detractor, you missed the part where I said "what is the value to the COVER BAND"... not a musician... meaning, the BAND does not benefit from rearranging the song.

Yes, the guy above needs to simplify. He's not lazy he's under the gun!!

Let me try to explain again as there is continuing misunderstanding of my point. I said "What value is there to a cover band to rearranging a song?"

Then I added, "...except to a bored, lazy, or unskilled musician."

I did not say nor mean to imply that anyone who changes a song is any of those things. I merely indicated that if there were such a thing as a bored, lazy, or unskilled musician (which I believe there probably is), they would benefit from rearranging a song with simpler lines.

See? No insult or offense intended, none really there except what is erroneously perceived.

And the question remains; what value is there to a COVER BAND to rearrange a song? Unless they're known for, or building a reputation for doing so and doing it well. IMO the typical weekend warrior cover band doesn't gain by rearranging a known song... unless the musicians are lazy, bored, or unskilled... then those musicians gain something... for the lazy, the time to do something else; for the bored, the enjoyment of playing something interesting; for the unskilled, the ability to make it through the song.

And I don't know why people are offended by the "bored, lazy, or unskilled" part. I dumb-down some parts, not because I think it's a good thing to do, but usually because I'm one of those three, and I experience each of them for different songs.

Sometimes I am bored. Sometimes I'm lazy. Sometimes I'm not skilled enough. Those facts don't offend me. AND... sometimes I play a song note-for-note. But I ALWAYS think a cover BAND should perform a song so that the average audience member can recognize it, and hears the signature parts they expect to hear.

BTW, I don't really care how you guys play your parts, I'm just sharing my opinion on a discussion forum, which I believe is equally as valid as yours. Don't know why that caused the panty-bunchin' it did...

[markorbit]

I'm in the camp along with the OP that says 'learn the song as it is' unless all the musicians agree that free and loose is what they want. Far too many times the result is invariably worse. Hit songs may sound simple but they have been recorded by professionals along with a producer and the 'how does this part go' discussion has already taken place. As a bass-player, it's a double nightmare when it's the drummer - all those little accents you learned, and the groove you nailed is now making YOU sound like crap!! As to the discussion about how close should it be to the original - well, I know first-hand some people aren't bothered but other people are really impressed when this little band in their town can sound just the same as the mega-band whose song they are playing. After all, ANYBODY can do a different version but only the skilled can make it sound just like the real deal.

I should add... some cover bands do have their 'own' sound - and it works for them because they have their own charisma and appeal to do it their way.