Legal action against venue owner?

B-NoteCowboy · #1 11-10-2006, 11:45 AM

Some of you may have seen my "a tale of two gigs" thread on the gig stories and bass humor page A tale of two gigs... but i think this thing has now become a question for band management.

Short story... we are an Oklahoma based band, and were under contract with a Missouri based venue. We fulfilled (in fact went far far above and beyond) every term in our contract and the venue did not. Most notably, they paid us the night of the show with a check that the next day they cancelled payment on.

This venue is contractually obligated to pay us $3250 which includes our fee and our travel expenses. I've contacted an attorney who has forwarded a demand of payment letter.

My question is how long would you guys wait before filing? I've recently found out that the guy has plenty of money but is facing some other legal and civil complaints so even though we are clearly in the right, I'm starting to worry about letting much time go by before bringing the pain (legally speaking) on this thing.

Anyone else ever have to deal with anything like this?

AGAIN - the moral of the story is to ALWAYS get a written contract. I wouldn't play for bagels and coffee at Starbucks without a contract now.

**cheezewiz** · #2 11-10-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-NoteCowboy

Some of you may have seen my "a tale of two gigs" thread on the gig stories and bass humor page A tale of two gigs... but i think this thing has now become a question for band management.

Short story... we are an Oklahoma based band, and were under contract with a Missouri based venue. We fulfilled (in fact went far far above and beyond) every term in our contract and the venue did not. Most notably, they paid us the night of the show with a check that the next day they cancelled payment on.

This venue is contractually obligated to pay us $3250 which includes our fee and our travel expenses. I've contacted an attorney who has forwarded a demand of payment letter.

My question is how long would you guys wait before filing? I've recently found out that the guy has plenty of money but is facing some other legal and civil complaints so even though we are clearly in the right, I'm starting to worry about letting much time go by before bringing the pain (legally speaking) on this thing.

Anyone else ever have to deal with anything like this?

AGAIN - the moral of the story is to ALWAYS get a written contract. I wouldn't play for bagels and coffee at Starbucks without a contract now.

I think I'd have the attorney include a time limit in the demand letter (which I'm sure he's already done), and if that time expires without payment being made, I'd file in Court the very next day. Its obvious the venue owner knew what he was doing if he stopped payment on your check.

Jay Terrien · #3 11-10-2006, 12:46 PM

Unfortunately, this is commonplace in the music business.

A competent attorney that's in it for the long haul should be able to help you easily win your money back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-NoteCowboy

Some of you may have seen my "a tale of two gigs" thread on the gig stories and bass humor page A tale of two gigs... but i think this thing has now become a question for band management.

Short story... we are an Oklahoma based band, and were under contract with a Missouri based venue. We fulfilled (in fact went far far above and beyond) every term in our contract and the venue did not. Most notably, they paid us the night of the show with a check that the next day they cancelled payment on.

This venue is contractually obligated to pay us $3250 which includes our fee and our travel expenses. I've contacted an attorney who has forwarded a demand of payment letter.

My question is how long would you guys wait before filing? I've recently found out that the guy has plenty of money but is facing some other legal and civil complaints so even though we are clearly in the right, I'm starting to worry about letting much time go by before bringing the pain (legally speaking) on this thing.

Anyone else ever have to deal with anything like this?

AGAIN - the moral of the story is to ALWAYS get a written contract. I wouldn't play for bagels and coffee at Starbucks without a contract now.

**Freddels** · #4 11-10-2006, 12:53 PM

Look at the statutes in MO (where the venue is located) and see if there is a criminal charge regarding theft of services. Go to the local court in that area and see what info they have.

DblG · #5 11-10-2006, 01:45 PM

Pure Scum. I wonder how many others have been screwed by this guy.

Maybe you can get the tires & rims off his Mercedes and hold 'em as collateral until you get your money.

RockFace · #6 11-10-2006, 01:57 PM

i would say in the letter that the owner has 14 days (not business days) to somehow get the money into your possession or you file the claim. although i am still pretty young, 22, and only been in a cover/bar band for a few months, it has been my experience that if you aren't insistent upon your requirements/demands for your shows, the owners will take advantage of you. don't expect them to help you out, because naturally they're trying to make as much money as possible for themselves.

like some other people are saying, it's just part of the deal when you are playing live shows...

Vandelay · #7 11-10-2006, 01:58 PM

It's great that you have a contract, so the law should be on your side.

First, double-check the language of the contract to make sure the owner doesn't have ANY possible way to void the terms of it. Also, does it specify any time period for payment (e.g. "within 15 days after the performance")? If so, I suppose you should wait that long, but after that you could and SHOULD send the lawyers after him.

JansenW · #8 11-10-2006, 02:10 PM

He probably gave you the check to get you to leave that night without incident. You might want to check when the stop payment was issued.

Munjibunga · #9 11-10-2006, 08:50 PM

I'd have filed a suit the day I found out the check was no good. He defrauded you. In many states, treble damages can be awarded for fraud. Go after him.

B-NoteCowboy · #10 11-10-2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JansenW

He probably gave you the check to get you to leave that night without incident. You might want to check when the stop payment was issued.

That's exactly what happened. I took it to his bank the next morning to cash it, thinking this may be a problem - given our altercation. But it was made out to my production company (an LLC I use to limit our liability because of pyro etc.) so they couldn't cash it to me directly. I had to take it home and deposit it. The little SOB must have cancelled it the next day.

The advice I got today from an attorney friend is that this is fraud or something similar since it was willful and not negligent.

mrpackerguy · #11 11-11-2006, 08:46 AM

A judgment against the place and or guy is pretty worthless if it is not collectible after the fact. Attorneys fees will eat $3200 up pretty quickly. You might try pursuing this in MO (if there is such a thing - we have it in WI) small claims court on your own at least to judgment.

Morrolan · #12 11-11-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrpackerguy

Attorneys fees will eat $3200 up pretty quickly. You might try pursuing this in MO (if there is such a thing - we have it in WI) small claims court on your own at least to judgment.

There are any number of attorneys in Springfield, MO who would take this on for a retainer in the $500 range.

TheSuzie · #13 11-11-2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

I'd have filed a suit the day I found out the check was no good. He defrauded you. In many states, treble damages can be awarded for fraud. Go after him.

+1000
Get in line as soon as possible. The longer things drag out, the less likely you are to be able to collect. Also, sometimes filing is enough to bring the other party to the table if you have a good case.

Best of luck,
S

invader3k · #14 11-12-2006, 09:24 AM

You could always warn the scum in question that your band doubles as a street gang.

NickyBass · #15 11-12-2006, 09:57 AM

If you bring the contract and the cancelled check to court with you, you can probably prove that you fulfilled the contract since payment was made.

Stuggi · #16 11-13-2006, 12:07 PM

But isn't it the one that "loses" in court that has to pay the charges for lawyers and stuff?

bertbassplayer · #17 11-13-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuggi

But isn't it the one that "loses" in court that has to pay the charges for lawyers and stuff?

I believe they have to pay Court costs but not necessarily lawyer costs. I think it also depends on the state your in if you can add lawyer costs to that. Again a lot of statues vary greatly from state to state, so you'll need to do your research.

NickyBass · #18 11-13-2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuggi

But isn't it the one that "loses" in court that has to pay the charges for lawyers and stuff?

I heard a great quote about divorsees. Something like, The lawyers want to drag out the case so they can make more money, and whichever client comes to their senses first...loses. You can win, but spend thousands in court costs and legal fees. You can even win the case, but not be rewarded any money.

bertbassplayer · #19 11-13-2006, 04:03 PM

For future reference, this could have been solved with a certified letter and small claims court, and not involving any lawyers, especially since you had a contract. Though Missouri's limit for small claims court is $3,000 not including court costs, a lot of states have limits as high as $15,000

JansenW · #20 11-13-2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-JansenW

He probably gave you the check to get you to leave that night without incident. You might want to check when the stop payment was issued.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-NoteCowboy

That's exactly what happened. I took it to his bank the next morning to cash it, thinking this may be a problem - given our altercation. But it was made out to my production company (an LLC I use to limit our liability because of pyro etc.) so they couldn't cash it to me directly. I had to take it home and deposit it. The little SOB must have cancelled it the next day.

The advice I got today from an attorney friend is that this is fraud or something similar since it was willful and not negligent.

I beleive there could be more serious charges if he issued a stop payment before he gave you the check.