Letting a band mate go

[jive1]

It's a tough business, and replacing people is a part of it. I can really see both sides of the fence, and the tough compromise to make is one where everyone knows their options and have the ability to exercise it.

In a perfect world, you would tell someone that they are getting replaced and the person understands and helps the band make a bridge to the new lineup. But, it's often not a likely scenario. The band can try to be up and up, the person not take it well and quit on the spot, and they are left to either cancel gigs which causes them to lose the money from that gig and potential bookings in the future (which for agency work can drop you to the bottom of the call list quickly), pay more for a sub who may just barely get by anyway, or take the first person available and repeat their situation again. On the flip side, the band can not tell the person they are going to be fired, and that person passes other opportunities because they think they already have a spot in a band. Either way, one of the parties has a limited set of options because they don't have all the information.

In my jaded view, you just gotta do what's best for you and let the cards fall. In situations like these, you have to choose between two bad options: lose gigs, or lose a friend. Neither are things you want, but sometimes losing gigs is worse than losing a friend, so you take that road. Nothing wrong with that at all. Making friendships a priority is a good thing. On the other hand, sometimes losing a friend won't cost you as much as losing gigs, especially if the relationship isn't that close and the income from gigs is needed.

Just because someone takes it badly doesn't mean the friendship is over. Time heals wounds, and a swift recovery into an equal or better situation heals it even faster.

In a practical sense, it's always good to have a deep bench of subs if you are a working band because these situations do arise. It's always easier to take the high road when either party has options available to them.

[Jason P Bass]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

There sure are a lot of "moral," "decent" people here on TalkBass.

That's why they can JUDGE OTHERS.

I guess.

Ding ding ding

Winner

[Jason P Bass]

Originally Posted by jive1

In my jaded view, you just gotta do what's best for you and let the cards fall. In situations like these, you have to choose between two bad options: lose gigs, or lose a friend. Neither are things you want, but sometimes losing gigs is worse than losing a friend, so you take that road. Nothing wrong with that at all. Making friendships a priority is a good thing. On the other hand, sometimes losing a friend won't cost you as much as losing gigs, especially if the relationship isn't that close and the income from gigs is needed.

Agreed. In addition, it's impossible to put every relevant detail into a TB post, but any reader can assume they know the whole situation.

Any band member split is gonna be hard, so I have a simple test:

1. What is the worst case scenario, and can I live with that?
2. If no, find a way to change that worst case scenario into something better.
3. Remember that you have no control over other people's reactions.

Good luck and never listen to idiots on the Internet.

That is called a paradox.

[tycobb73]

People say its moral to tell them first but I have a different view. I'm sitting across from a coworker. The owner of the company took him into his office a couple weeks ago and told him there is no future for him here and they are going to find somemone else. His morale is down, its weird for us in the office because we don't know when to refer work to him, and we're all just really confused. He'll be here for an indefinate period of time. I would never do it this way.

My band is replacing our drummer too. He took a job that requires he work Friday nights, he threw sticks at our lead singer like a 15 year old (he's 52), and he wants loud stage volume. Plus he can never remember the breaks or when to end a song. Our lead singer is freinds with Plalex' old lead singer. This lead singer put us in contact with a drummer. I asked Phalex about him and Plalex gave him a good reccomendation. I always planned on auditioning him and putting his name on top of the pile. After not getting any good hits on craigs I told my lead singer to tell him he's in without an audition. But we have a gig in two weekends so I'm hanging on to my old drummer til then. We get to do the gig and he gets to play in hundreds, maybe even 1000 people. After the gig he's gone. If it weren't for the Friday thing I'd bring up the issues but he needs a job. That is probably 75%.

[invader3k]

As far as the OP is concerned, I can see both sides of it. I think ideally, you fire and then replace. However, in the real world when you have gigs lined up and are a working band, it doesn't always work out this way. It sounds like the OP's band handled it as best they could, given the circumstances.

[Staredge]

I had to fire one of my guitarists. We spent a couple months spinning our wheels because he just wasn't doing the work at home. My other guitarist was ready to leave the band because of it, but we thought that having a talk with him would help. It didn't. I had met another guy who was into the music (instro surf) and brought him in as a backup. No hard and fast plans at that time to get rid of #1, although the thought had crossed my mind. First rehearsal with the new guy didn't go well. The whole band was frustrated and it came to a head. Hated to do it, but he just wasn't working out. He was sort of relieved, as he wasn't that into the music.

[Yerf Dog]

Originally Posted by claytitan

Long story short we've asked for improvement for months. Not learning songs, no time for practice, bringing way too much gear to gigs and overplaying finally took its toll.

No worries then.

[kanonfodr]

Everyone may not like me but I just did the "dick" move, jamming around two weeks ago at an open jam (without our drummer, whom we haven't seen in months) a girl got on stage with sticks in her hand and did pretty good, liked our stuff.

I jammed with her the next week, and this weekend got the whole band together and she kicked ass, even rescuing a song I had doomed because I couldn't get the drums right (yes, I'm programming the drums for recording, and other stuff). She's got the stuff to do the drum programming, a practice pad (which we have lacked for a while ) and while we're taking a hit on talent we are still getting off the ground so my old drummer is about to get the word. I brought it up to the band members who I do see (and are really good friends) and it was agreed.

I really do feel for the guy and I'm trying to figure out a way to be genteel about what has happened but right now she's offering us a bit more than he is so he's out and she is in. I'm not really fond of it on a personal level, but professionally it's kinda like taking out the garbage: gotta be done .

Peace,
Greg

[invader3k]

If you haven't seen your drummer in months, is he really going to be that surprised?

[kanonfodr]

Originally Posted by invader3k

If you haven't seen your drummer in months, is he really going to be that surprised?

Possibly. We've been out of a practice pad so I can't complain about that, but I was trying to get him up here and help me with drum programming (even lending him a computer to use because his couldn't handle the programs).

Peace,
Greg

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by kanonfodr

Everyone may not like me but I just did the "dick" move, jamming around two weeks ago at an open jam (without our drummer, whom we haven't seen in months) a girl got on stage with sticks in her hand and did pretty good, liked our stuff.

I jammed with her the next week, and this weekend got the whole band together and she kicked ass, even rescuing a song I had doomed because I couldn't get the drums right (yes, I'm programming the drums for recording, and other stuff). She's got the stuff to do the drum programming, a practice pad (which we have lacked for a while ) and while we're taking a hit on talent we are still getting off the ground so my old drummer is about to get the word. I brought it up to the band members who I do see (and are really good friends) and it was agreed.

I really do feel for the guy and I'm trying to figure out a way to be genteel about what has happened but right now she's offering us a bit more than he is so he's out and she is in. I'm not really fond of it on a personal level, but professionally it's kinda like taking out the garbage: gotta be done .

Peace,
Greg

Sometimes it happens like this. Even if you had seen more of your drummer, you happened to hook up with this other drummer who has more to offer in some substantive ways. Chances are first drummer even knows about his deficiencies and how he's holding up your progress. Now you're in a position to decide on the fate of your first drummer.

Sometimes you have to look at it like this: Maybe you'd quit a job cold and then start looking for another one. Maybe you have the funds to support that kind of decision. But it's more likely that you should look for another job while you're still employed, then quit the first job after you find another.

I've been on the receiving end of this kind of termination, and I heard through the grapevine that auditions for my replacement were taking place. Yes, it caused resentment, but only because we didn't have any gigs scheduled and hadn't even played our first gig. In fact, I had only passed the audition and been recruited a few weeks earlier, and the leader got a wild hair for no justifiable reason.

But under other circumstances, and if I had some significant issues that I had to admit were probably to the detrement of the band, I'd have to suck it up and understand.

[deeptubes]

22 years ago, I was in a speed metal band. We were all in our late teens early 20s, practiced at one of the guitarists' house. He lived with his dad. One week, he kept calling me up on practice days, telling me they had been cancelled for one reason or another. I stopped by to say hey, and everyone was there jamming with different bassist. His dad was out front having a smoke as I was walking up. I could hear them outside, and his dad said something along the line of "Uh oh, I don't think they were expecting to see you tonight". That was how I found out I was getting canned. I went into the practice room, and they had the dude playin through my rig. I just walked over, turned it off, and unplugged his bass. The singer, who thought he was God's gift to everything, said "What'd you do that for? Don't be a dick." I only hit him 5 times before the other guys grabbed me and pulled me back. They apologized and said they wanted to tell me. It would have been all good. I play with my fingers and didn't quite have the raw speed they wanted. No sweat. Wasn't really my bag anyway. But, it was done in a very poor manner.

It's not what you do, it's how you do it. You can tell someone they're dressed poorly, their breath stinks, and they're ignorant. But, if you do it by straightening their tie, popping a breath mint into their mouth, and giving them the missing info they need on their way into a business meeting, they'll thank you for it.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by deeptubes

It's not what you do, it's how you do it. You can tell someone they're dressed poorly, their breath stinks, and they're ignorant. But, if you do it by straightening their tie, popping a breath mint into their mouth, and giving them the missing info they need on their way into a business meeting, they'll thank you for it.

sig-worthy!

[fraublugher]

If dude learned to play in the the first place this wouldn't be a discussion about someone's
hypothetical abilities and "feelings".

[DWBass]

Not fun at all. Was the target of such a termination a year ago. I was not happy. Current band......we are at our wits end with the drummer and are planning an exit strategy now. We're just gonna tell it like it is.

1. Does not remember the proper groove
2. Tempo issues
3. Changes grooves without band approval and even after protesting, has not reverted.
4. Blows off the occasional rehearsal
5. Plays loud. No nuances
6. Plays like a maniac at times and does so on top of others solos. Every song is like a damn drum solo!

Funny, dude asked me last night if he was invited to my family BBQ! Hell no, you are NOT invited!

[vinny]

People fire themselves.

[addylewis]

I've had a couple of BEING fired or let go...and each time I wanted to batter them:

Firstly was my first covers band, I admit I was starting to get bored rehearsing weekly and only gigging 3 times a year...so I started to bring random pedals to practice (I had pretty much all of those Zoom Compact pedals and the last month or so I'd bring 1 or 2 of them each week, different ones each time - just to keep myself amused as we were starting to learn some "covers band classics" like Rainbow and rubbish like that...) - what it was I THINK, was that at the time (being a mega Beatles fan and knowing how THEY did it when they started out) I didn't know there WAS a difference between "original" and "covers" bands. We suddenly had a meeting in some pub and basically it was 3-on-1 which gave me a helluva shock...think I was only 22, and the rest of the guys were mid-30's-early-40's - what did it was when I said for the 2nd time "I wanna do more of our own stuff" and one of the guys said "There's that "I" again which I keep hearing, theres no "I" in "Band"..." and that was too much for me with the 20 year age gap between me and the guitarist who said it. They said I could stay if I played like the originals and ditched the pedals (I was improvising like hell by this point too...), so I left...fairly bitter towards the way they handled it.

2nd one (which I've mentioned before) - meeting up with the (originals) band occaisionally over the course of a year, not my kind of stuff really but it wasn't bad...we went into the studio and spent I think £750 for 4 days with production thrown in, finished on the friday then on tuesday I had a "meeting" with the singer/guitarist who basically sacked me...I basically forced some money on them towards the recording before all this, out of decency y'know - the singer wasn't exactly flush and worked in a factory, I was even worse off and worked part-time (and had turned down permanent shifts for this band) ...when I finally got a copy of the demo about 4 months later, the guy sent me the wrong one with my replacement on it!! They didn't even offer me the weeks wages back I gave them towards the session...(they're still going but hardly gig now, and we actually gigged together by chance when I was in my next band who absolutely pissed all over them musically so I'm pretty glad they got to see that...)

There actually WAS a 3rd one but it was mutual...I was half expecting it as I'd just joined an original band and we were starting out by doing a weekly jam night the same night my covers band rehearsed - after 3 weeks not being able to rehearse and them apparently unable to move the practice day I had to go, got a BIT annoyed when I found out they moved the night because the new guy couldn't do the same night as me but I was in a new, brilliant originals band so I wasn't really bothered lol...

BEING sacked feels like crap, and depending how close you are to the band members - sackING someone can feel like crap - so I've been told (they both told me it was VERY hard to do cos I always get on with people, am dedicated and stuff...and I probably show how much I personally LOVE doing it through these...), It's either been optional to attend the sacking or done by email so far for me...(think theres only been 2 sackings and 3 guys quitting, but quitting's different isn't it...)