live volume issues

GrooveMonkey · #1 09-28-2003, 11:31 AM

Played a gig in a mid-size bar (two rooms) last night with my new QSC RMX 1450 (900w into 8 Ohm SWR Goliath III) and my guitarist/singer was STILL killing me with guitar volume.

He plays a Peavey Classic 30 tube combo which is sweet sounding & loud all by itself, but he allways mic's it into the PA and really cranks the monitor level on the guitar channel. I've been turning the knob on my individual monitor down so I don't get blasted.

I was turned up almost as high as I dared (blinking the clip lights) and a friend of ours said he could barely hear the drums in the mix.

I hate playing that loud...

nonsqtr · #2 09-29-2003, 01:12 AM

Agreed. Tell the guitar player to get a personal ear monitor. No reason both of you should go deaf...

jive1 · #3 09-29-2003, 11:01 AM

If you are running your own sound, walk over to the mixer and turn him down. If you have a soundman, talk to him and tell him to turn the guitar player down in the monitors. Simple as that. If he's too loud in the main mix, (what the audience hears) then you have a different problem. If a friend tells you he can't hear the drums, then the dude is too loud.

There are other consequences for being too loud in addition to hearing loss: losing gigs and crowds. Most people like being near the stage, but if you notice there is a swath of empty space in the crowd where the band or the guitar amp is, you're too loud. If everyone is at the bar, or off to the sides of your stage, you are too loud. I have seen as many bands lose gigs due to excessive volume as often as for lack of talent or draw. People's ears get tired, and some frequencies tend to be more tiresome. That's part of the reason why you'll see a mediocre band hold a crowd for a while, while some band that's jamming out can have people leave before the end of the set. The quality of sound you produce can have as much impact as the quality of the music itself.
Some bar owners/managers don't like loud music, and their clientele might not either. In some places, people go to see the show. As musicians we love those kinds of gigs. In other establishments, the clientele want to talk and socialize and the music adds to the scene. If the music is too loud to socialize, then you aren't helping the club. If you aren't helping the club, there's a bunch of other bands (or DJs) out there who will. If the music is so loud that people don't want to come near the stage to dance, it makes your band look lame and makes the scene in the club look lifeless.

Playing too loud won't only hurt your ears, it hurts your business.

jimbob · #4 10-01-2003, 01:52 AM

I'M ORIGINALLY FROM SYRACUSE!!!

Hey...jive1 and the other posts are right! Show your guitarist this post.

I don't know how you are set up for gigs but Low stage volume and proper monitor and front of house mix leads to success. If you can get individual monitor mixes and a good sound person for your band it will go far. A quality sound is better than a loud sound. Having your bandmates "use" the soundperson is the best thing you can do..."cut the guitar in the monitor" or "turn the guitar up" is great!

As far as your bass rig volume goes for that night, you were probably disturbing the brook trout on the grasse river because of the high frequencies you had to compete with! I may never forgive you! I FISH WITH FLIES! I'M FOR REAL!!!

yoshi · #5 10-01-2003, 03:57 AM

I know how you feel, at one point I was up aginst (should be with, I know, but it wasnt, it was direct loudness compotition) 2 Peavey 5150 mark 2's. TWO OF THEM!!!

aladdin · #6 10-01-2003, 07:41 AM

I second what Jive and Jimbob said.

-Aladdin

RicPlaya · #7 10-01-2003, 09:23 PM

Mixing is 90% of the battle! If you can't even hear the drums that's beyond obsurd. You can have the best musicians in your band in the world, but if you can't get your sound to the crowd correctly and leveled evenly than why even play at all. You ever wonder why a band sounds awesome on cd but like crap live? The mixing baby.

**IvanMike** · #8 10-17-2003, 07:15 PM

i've dealt with guitar players from day one and it aint pretty
you have to be firm and straight with them
bottom line, you'll lose gigs
guitar players are right in one respect, good guitar tone often equals turning their amp up but the people in the club dont know the diff between killer tone and non killer tone
let them know that they can turn up that loud once you start playing stadiums, until then, get real

nashvillebill · #9 10-17-2003, 09:49 PM

We've said it many times, it deserves to be said again....Many guitar players don't realize that the"tone" they want is the saturated sound of a tube amp running on full volume. Not realizing that, they make the mistake of buying more watts than they need. Then they especially don't realize how excruciatingly LOUD that can be to other people.

I have a little 4 watt all-tube amp for guitar. Great tone, because I can turn it all the way up and really drive it hard. Believe it or not, that 4 watts is mighty loud.

So you gotta tell the dude straight up "Man you're WAY too loud". Even if it starts a fight. If he can't control his volume, he's just a guitar wanker, not a musician. (And the Classic 30 should be able to push major tone without having the master volume all the way up.)

nashvillebill · #10 10-17-2003, 09:50 PM

We've said it many times, it deserves to be said again....Many guitar players don't realize that the"tone" they want is the saturated sound of a tube amp running on full volume. Not realizing that, they make the mistake of buying more watts than they need. Then they especially don't realize how excruciatingly LOUD that can be to other people.

I have a little 4 watt all-tube amp for guitar. Great tone, because I can turn it all the way up and really drive it hard. Believe it or not, that 4 watts is mighty loud.

So you gotta tell the dude straight up "Man you're WAY too loud". Even if it starts a fight. If he can't control his volume, he's just a guitar wanker, not a musician. (And the Classic 30 should be able to push major tone without having the master volume all the way up.) Volume does not equal tone.

He really doesn't even need to add it to the mix. The soundman, if you have one, should cut him down.

**IvanMike** · #11 10-17-2003, 10:31 PM

amen nashville bill, amen

KeithPas · #12 10-27-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yoshi
I know how you feel, at one point I was up aginst (should be with, I know, but it wasnt, it was direct loudness compotition) 2 Peavey 5150 mark 2's. TWO OF THEM!!!

Thats basically hopeless.

KeithPas · #13 10-27-2003, 01:17 PM

If the guitarist faces his amp away from the rest of the band that might help. He should not be in the monitor system at all if his stage volume is that loud. I would give him a choice; either turn down and be in the monitor system or face your amp away from everyone else and not be in the monitors.

ZuluFunk · #14 10-27-2003, 01:55 PM

What pre-amp are you running into that amp?
You may not be getting the amount of signal you need going into that rig. Check with QSC, but I think you need a decent input signal 1-1/4volts?).

You're running that amp in bridged mode (make sure you have it set up correctly) pushing 900w into a 700w 8ohm 410...you should have pretty much unbearible volume for a bar gig.