micro managing the kid's band...

[fdeck]

"Pushing" or "forcing" kids is a balancing act. I think that some amount of push is necessary because kids don't have the attention span and persistence necessary to keep up with something even when they insist that they are enjoying it and want to keep doing it. I was pushed, and I will push my kids. I still love classical music and am grateful for the gift of music from my parents. Knowing when to back off and try something else is important. I tried a couple different instruments before settling on the cello as my main instrument through high school.

In the era of electronic entertainment and high fructose corn syrup, if kids are left completely to their own devices, they will turn themselves into mental and physical Blobs.

But I think that the parents have to love music themselves. I know a lot of "music parents" and oddly enough the ones who are the most laid back are the ones who are gigging musicians -- including members of the Symphony. The worst are the ones who don't really care about music, but have been persuaded that it's some sort of socioeconomic stepping stone.

[BawanaRik]

Get a hot chick singer. Hot at 12 might not be your hot so let your kid decide. The other things like rides and not showing up for practice will become non-issues.

They might not want you getting in the way though. Convince your son since it's your house he should be BL so he can gain experience putting a band together. It will make his college years better.

Sit back and hope the singer's mom has time to wait for the kid while they practice.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by fdeck

In the era of electronic entertainment and high fructose corn syrup, if kids are left completely to their own devices, they will turn themselves into mental and physical Blobs.

That's a fair point. I was never pushed, as such, but when I did show an interest in guitar (13 or 14y.o), my mother offered to pay for music lessons for me (not guitar lessons, but theory lessons). She explained why she thought it would help me a lot, and a I agreed. Best thing I ever did, and I'm glad she cared enough to do it.

Back to your quote though, I wonder how many kids today are taking up musical instruments compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Any music-shop owners out there who would know?

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

Back to your quote though, I wonder how many kids today are taking up musical instruments compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Any music-shop owners out there who would know?

I'm betting that music is just as popular today, if not more popular. There are binders full of kids in the school music programs here in Madison.

Music-shop owners are in a world of hurt right now, but retail sales of student instruments appears to be huge. And I would have to assume that a chain like Guitar Center is mainly geared towards a younger demographic simply based on their marketing.

Now it's possible that some interest in music might be expressed through "instruments" that would have been foreign to my generation, such as turntables and production software.

And I suspect one shouldn't underestimate the number of young people involved in religious music, which has been practically re-invented over the past few decades to broaden its youth appeal.

[new2bassguitar]

Well micro-managing didn't hurt the White Stripes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1XvGuut6Nc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCY3qUvIpCo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHi_d-7H4To

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by new2bassguitar

Well micro-managing didn't hurt the White Stripes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1XvGuut6Nc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCY3qUvIpCo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHi_d-7H4To

You mean that band thats no longer together due to dysfunctional personal relationships?

[new2bassguitar]

Well, guys, if anyone cares, here is what finally happened on the micro-managing the kids story....

We got the flu right after xmas and the band didn't practice for about 11 days before the talent show try-outs... Also, due to scheduling constraints with one of the band members (basketball tournament), the band had to be the first act to try out on the very first day of auditions... So they didn't get a chance to practice the night before or anything and went in kind of cold. But I think the performance was pretty solid...

About 5 days later we got the call that the band didn't make it in... They said they had 35 acts trying out for 15-17 slots. And, (you guys nailed this one) they needed to work on their audience appeal... They said they didn't move around enough and didn't maintain eye contact with the audience.

The way this supposedly works is that 10 kids judge the try-outs to pick who gets to go to the show... We got beat by a kid who could drink 3 glasses of milk in 11 seconds...

It is what it is, we watched the show and it was a good show with a lot of variety, and maybe that's what they were looking for. Last year, the band was the 6th grade darlings, this year they weren't. (Actually 2 sixth graders made the top 5 overall at the show this year). They already had a rock band in the show, and those high school guys moved around on the stage like they were covered in itching powder...

I hate it that the band didn't get to play in front of the big audience. In trying to figure out what we could have done differently if anything, it came down to two points:

1.) We could have gone to a later audition with one band member short and played the song as a 3 piece... (7 nation army: pretty easy to do). And as it turned out, they lost the basketball tournament and our guy was available. But at the time, we had to make a command decision, and the decision was we practiced as a team, we are going to audition as a team. So really, I don't think we could have made another decision on this...

2.) We could have done a more traditional cover of the song... This is the one decision that I am concerned we went the wrong way on... The band did a version of 7 nation army starting off acoustic, then going electric. I am not sure anyone got that... They could have done just a regular cover of it, that has more energy, that people are more used to hearing... It seems like in at least this talent show, they want instant energy and impact and the whole thing over in about 2 minutes... So that is one decision I am second guessing. Maybe it was just the wrong year to be a middle school rockband...

Anyhow, I wanted to fill you guys in on the conclusion of what happened on this. Here is the video, let me know what you think, thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j74GicfhR28

[guy n. cognito]

Sorry they didn't get further. Better luck to them next year.

[new2bassguitar]

we should have played the Hives!

i beat somebody to the punch on that one :-)

[MarkMgibson]

It was a kid's talent show, so all that matters is - did they have fun? I hope they had a blast. If not, then it was a negative experience and that's not what music is all about (not at their age). I'm not having a go, but I reckon you're taking this far too seriously. Really, you're still going on about song choices and how big the audience was. I'm betting the kids couldn't give a rat's about all this crap. Actually, I am having a go - you're carrying on like one of those pageant parents.

[new2bassguitar]

did they have fun? did you watch the video, Mark?

i am trying to figure out the disconnect here is with you guys but not having much luck. basically, i wanted to let you guys know how this story ended and the realm of responses i figured i would get would be along the lines of:

1.) hey nice job, sorry u didn't get in, good effort.
2.) yes, that was a cool arrangement of that song
3.) no, you should have done it traditional
4.) thanks for all this info, we will keep that in mind for our kid's talent show.

i write a lot of light-hearted comments in these posts and put smiley faces in them in order to convey a sense of non-seriousness. but not sure everyone gets that. but oh well, nothing i can do.

anyhow the kids did have fun, sure they were disappointed though. but only 11 more months until the next pageant opportunity! and look here is a smiley face indicating that was a joke :-)

[D.M.N.]

It seems I'm a bit late to this thread, but I figure I'll chip in my bit. I'm currently 20, but back when I first started playing, around 14/15, I was in a band. Guitar, Bass, Drums, Girl singer. We had a lot of fun for a while, left to our own devices, playing some generic pop/rock of the time. However, eventually the Girl's mom got involved. She started showing up to all the practices, watching us, making suggestions, telling us to play certain songs that played to the girl's strengths. Eventually the guitar player and I got sick and tired of the mom's $h*t and called each other up, both expressing displeasure and wanting to explore different music (me blues & psych, him jazz and country). We were both quite clear that the thing that did it was the Mom, she was too overbearing. Him & I have subsequently played together a number of times, and I went on to play with adults and playing in Bars. The Mom has continued to manage her daughter, whose now got some sort of recording deal and got into the whole alt/country thing, which is really cool for her. The guitarist and I have backed her once or twice since the split, but any serious work with her never worked out due to the parental supervision. So my advise to any parents is to step back, support your kids, but don't be overbearing or push it on them.

Here's another example: Local Band, always kind of a kid band. You know, started playing when they were like 11 or something, couple years younger than me. Anyways, there was always the one band mom, really pushing for them to practice and do shows. Quite prolific. They were constantly practicing and had lots of shows. They were also simply horrible. Like, just couldn't keep a tune. Off time, out of key. The line up was constantly changing. The only kid in it now (they're still going, I guess they aren't really kids anymore) is the son of the band mom. Everyone else left at various points and were replaced because it was too stressful to deal with the mom. All the best bands and musicians my age that I know voluntarily picked up their instrument, and their parents supported them, but didn't try to control them. By continuously riding kids about music, they'll start to see it as a chore, something no kid likes. I know I felt that way when my parents tried to get me to play violin. Looking back, I really wished I'd learned it, but at the time it was something my parents were trying to make me do, like sports and stuff, and I pushed against it. When I showed interest in guitar and bass, they encouraged me, but didn't push it like violin. And guess what I'm still doing today?

Originally Posted by fdeck

In the era of electronic entertainment and high fructose corn syrup, if kids are left completely to their own devices, they will turn themselves into mental and physical Blobs.

I don't think this is entirely true. Sure, maybe not as MANY kids will get into music and instruments, but there will always be kids innately drawn to play music. My family has a history of artistic tendencies (Dad paints, Grandfather worked in film, other ancestors also paint and such), so I was surrounded by a general sense of having an outlet to create and express myself. But I was never sat down and told "here, play the guitar/bass". I asked my parents for a guitar because I wanted to learn, on my own accord, to be like the musicians I was listening to (Chuck Berry, mostly). Same thing with most of my music playing friends. Grew up either in a creative environment or with musicians in the family, and chose to pursue music on their own accord. So not all kids will just sit around and veg out. I'm sure that somewhat has to do with the environment you grow up in, but some people are just naturally inclined to pursue music.

[Stev187]

^great post. Thanks for sharing this!

--Steve

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by new2bassguitar

did they have fun? did you watch the video, Mark?

i am trying to figure out the disconnect here is with you guys but not having much luck. basically, i wanted to let you guys know how this story ended and the realm of responses i figured i would get would be along the lines of:

1.) hey nice job, sorry u didn't get in, good effort.
2.) yes, that was a cool arrangement of that song
3.) no, you should have done it traditional
4.) thanks for all this info, we will keep that in mind for our kid's talent show.

i write a lot of light-hearted comments in these posts and put smiley faces in them in order to convey a sense of non-seriousness. but not sure everyone gets that. but oh well, nothing i can do.

anyhow the kids did have fun, sure they were disappointed though. but only 11 more months until the next pageant opportunity! and look here is a smiley face indicating that was a joke :-)

My apologies then. Good job on the song, and I'm glad they had a good time. I hope they all keep playing.

Cheers,
Mark

[Rickenjosh]

Originally Posted by RhinoBass

Jeez,

Whatever happenned to the days when you would join a band and play real loud just to piss-off your parents and make them leave you alone?

AMEN!!!

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by fdeck

I'm betting that music is just as popular today, if not more popular. There are binders full of kids in the school music programs here in Madison.

Music-shop owners are in a world of hurt right now, but retail sales of student instruments appears to be huge. And I would have to assume that a chain like Guitar Center is mainly geared towards a younger demographic simply based on their marketing.

Now it's possible that some interest in music might be expressed through "instruments" that would have been foreign to my generation, such as turntables and production software.

And I suspect one shouldn't underestimate the number of young people involved in religious music, which has been practically re-invented over the past few decades to broaden its youth appeal.

Interesting - I wonder if there's any statistics about kids taking up musical instruments (especially R&R type instruments - guitars, basses, drums, keyboards), and how many of them are still playing three years later; compared to 10 or 20 years ago. Instruments are certainly cheaper, so I guess that has to make a big difference.