Misc Band Issues - What to Address, What to Let Go?

[jaywa]

Looking for thoughts on some various things that have been "irking" me about my main band.

This is an all-covers band consisting of 3 guitars (2 of which also trade off on lead vox), drums and myself playing a variety of material from vintage Elvis and Johnny Cash up through classic/80s/90s rock with a few newer country songs thrown in (Brad Paisley, Keith Urban, Brooks & Dunn, Vince Gill). I started the band 3 1/2 years ago and we have only had one personnel change (lead guitar). We have built a pretty good following and a good local "rep" and are getting about 25% more for a show now than when we first started. Our average gig schedule is two nights a month but September will be "big" for us with 5 nights booked including a spot on a high-profile local festival.

The band are all great guys and people always have a great time at our gigs. But, there are some persistent things that are bugging me and that I think are keeping us from going as far as we could. I would appreciate knowing which ones are worth confronting (and how), and which I should just leave alone.

1) We are wildly inconsistent. Some shows we are grooving like crazy, others it's like we've never played the songs with each other before. Actually we are not only inconsistent between shows, but sometimes within them as well (e.g., four or five great songs followed by one that's a total disaster).

2) Our "primary" lead singer only has the lyrics memorized to about half our songs. The rest he has the lyrics written out on cheat sheets he tapes to the side of the mains. I think this looks tacky as heck and sometimes when he's wandering over to look at the lyrics he loses his place in the song. Or he'll quit playing his guitar for a few bars. Is it too much to expect your singer to know all the words to all the songs without any cheat sheets? The rest of us have all memorized our parts.

3) Our other lead singer/guitarist buys a new guitar about every 2-3 months but refuses to upgrade his amp (he has an ancient Peavey 2x12 combo that is heavy as heck and looks and sounds like garbage).

4) Our lead guitarist is a great player with great tone, but his onstage attire is... well... low-rent to say the least. Jeans, a T-shirt with some sort of flannel shirt over top and sometimes a beat-up cap. The rest of us usually try to dress up a little (nice jeans, linen shirt, etc.) and then here's this guy looking like he just finished painting a house or got off the fishing boat.

5) Our guitarists really don't have much concept of dynamics or understand that sometimes it's OK just to let the bass and drums play for awhile.

6) We have only added about 5 new songs to our setlist in three years. The reason being the guitarists refuse to learn new material on their own time and I refuse to waste my time in group practice watching them work through their parts. So, we hardly ever practice.

Like I said, none of these are "band breakers" in my opinion and I have no intention of leaving, but it would be great to hear from some people who have been there as I'm sure none of these issues are new to anyone. Thanks.

[bassmanrocke]

Sounds like most of the band wants to keep this a hobby band while you are looking for more. There's nothing wrong with either perspectives, but together a lot of frustration and hostility can build up. You need to share your thoughts with them and see if there are any compromises that can be made. If not you have to weigh whether the frustration is worth it to you. Maybe a good start would be to share your post with them. It's possible that they are not aware of how their actions are being perceived.

What you are going through is common to virtually all musicians. A band is a team, but the best teams have a common goal and direction. After really determining what the band wants, you have to decide whether your goals fit it. If you can't see yourself happy in the situation you are in, then you can make your exit. But by discussing the problems, if you do want to leave you can make it an amicable split.

When you say nothing is a "Band Breaker" it seems like you're saying there is nothing really big, but many little things. I was in a situation almost identical to yours, and ended up quitting because the drummer told me he was going to smash my watch if I looked at it again during a set break. He was making a joke, but their irresponsibility was no longer funny to me. I finished that night and never played with them again. Any issue you have can become a "Band Breaker" if it is stacked on other issues. Make it clear that the situation is serious and for everyone's sake the issues need to be addressed.

[jaywa]

Great thoughts, bassmanrocke. Honestly, I'm fine with keeping it as a hobby band, too. It's pretty good money for the amount of time I invest and a lot better suited to my current lifestyle than the band I was in when I was 28 that practiced 5 nights a week. The difference, I guess, is that I want us to be the best hobby band we can be while I think at least a couple of the other guys are content to show up on any given night and let the chips fall where they may. A lot of people come up to us and say how great we are but honestly I know we could be a lot better.

[Mike Shevlin]

well.....ah.....you didn't say anything too bad about the drummer.

[jaywa]

I honestly don't have any issues with the drummer. He's one of my best friends off-stage and pretty much has the same feelings about these things as I do. Plus he's a darn good player - and that's a pretty rare combination around here which is one reason I'm not inclined to bail on this thing.

[Jared Lash]

I thought I'd offer my thoughts on each point you mentioned. Bear in mind that I've played in bands in a lot of different genres but never country, so my perspective may be a bit different.

1) This is half "that's life" and half "people need to get their **** together". I've only been in one band that seemed to bring their A game every night out and that was my most successful college band where we played all the time and thought we had a chance at making a career out of it. Every other band I've been in, especially the last five or six years (I'm 31) has been somewhat like you describe.

As adults with adult responsibilities (full time jobs, kids, bills etc) sometimes you just get worn out or distracted and things don't click on certain nights. Everybody is entitled to off nights. But the fact that it happens DURING some shows makes me think that some people just aren't working on their parts as much as they need to be. A bad night is one thing. Consistently screwing up the same parts is another.

2) Yes, this is unprofessional. Yes, you should expect him to learn his parts as everyone else does. I've been through this and at the very least, the audience should not be aware of this. But it sounds like he's not able to do that. IMO he either needs to do that or you need to drop those songs or give them to the other singer.

3) There's not much you can do about this. It's his gear. You could be passive aggressive about it and lower him in the mix, but I wouldn't recommend that. Unless it's a big enough problem to issue an ultimatum (and it doesn't sound that way) then you will probably just have to live with it. Of course, if his amp were to accidentally break while loading up gear . . .

4) This is a bigger deal in the music/venues you play than it is for any band I've been in I'm sure. Have you told him to upgrade his gig wardrobe? This would bother me the least of all the things you listed, but there's really no reason he can't fall in line and "dress the part" a bit more. It's not like you're asking for tuxedos.

5) After 3 1/2 years I don't see this changing unless you start staking out specific parts for them to hang back a bit. This is a give and take issue and professional musicians should understand that.

6) This one is more confusing than anything. I'm a stand up comedy junkie and it reminds me of a guy I liked when I was a kid. His act was hilarious so I went and saw him 2 or 3 years later and it was virtually the same exact act. I can't imagine doing the same "material" over and over again. They really don't want to do new songs? Weird. I'd go crazy personally. But again, as with everything else, you seem to be able to live with it.

Trust me, no band is perfect. Fix what you can, and then just enjoy things as much as possible.

Good luck.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by jaywa

1) We are wildly inconsistent.
2) Our "primary" lead singer only has the lyrics memorized to about half our songs.
5) Our guitarists really don't have much concept of dynamics.
6) We have only added about 5 new songs to our setlist in three years. The reason being the guitarists refuse to learn new material on their own time and I refuse to waste my time in group practice watching them work through their parts. So, we hardly ever practice.

I rearranged your list and put together common problems (to me, anyway).

Your gigs are your "practices". None of the guys is spending any time practicing at home. Your band never rehearses. So why would your band not be inconsistent, songs half memorized, poor dynamics and few new songs?

In addition, there's no reason to add new songs until you get all your current songs down.

Since you stated that you're the reason that the band doesn't practice, I think you should "bite the bullet" and set up a practice schedule and go over each current song that you mess up on, 1x1 until you get them down. Possibly spend a whole practice on one song. Whatever it takes. Maybe cut down your song list and stretch some of the better ones out a bit (double length). The songs the bands mess up on are still "new" because the band hasn't got them down yet! If the guitar players are learning they're parts, maybe you can help them with dynamics instead of getting frustrated waiting around. Just a suggestion.....

When the band gets down all the current tunes start picking one new one per month. Get a copy for everyone and get the guitards to practice at home and be ready for rehearsal. I know it's easier said than done, but once the band it tight with all the current songs, maybe they'll feel differently and be willing to put in some time on their own.

For the "lead" vocalist, just get the guy a music stand w/ a light and be done with it. Set it in front of the mic. Looking at the PA mains for lyric sheets during a song is so unprofessional, especially when losing his place during the song. FWIW, all the bands I've played in, the vocalists have the lyrics memorized.

I would start recording practices/gigs so everyone can hear the train wrecks and start to hear what you hear. Then you may have something to talk about with examples.

Originally Posted by jaywa

3)(he has an ancient Peavey 2x12 combo that is heavy as heck and looks and sounds like garbage).

Have been FOH to hear how he sounds in the mix. It might be a lot different then you think. If you have recordings, then you'll have something to reference. Are you carrying his amp? Let him carry it.

BTW, How does your group setup?

Originally Posted by jaywa

4) Our lead guitarist is a great player with great tone, but his onstage attire is... well... low-rent to say the least.

Is this a problem for other members of the band? If it's not, don't worry about it, otherwise, maybe the "band" should speak up. I say leave it alone...a great player with great tone ....mmmmm, easy decision.

Originally Posted by jaywa

Like I said, none of these are "band breakers" in my opinion and I have no intention of leaving....

Since you have no intention of leaving, all you have is time. Use it wisely.

Good luck

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by jaywa

...guitarists refuse to learn new material on their own time and ... we hardly ever practice.

thats the source of your problems. The solution is to get every body on board with :
1.) practicing and learning the material on their own time
and
2.) rehearsing regularly as a band. This will allow you do address consistency and dynamics.

Gear and Attire issues can wait until the first 2 problems are addressed.
IMHO and all that...

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by jaywa

He's one of my best friends off-stage and pretty much has the same feelings about these things as I do.

Maybe it's time to address the other band members together with the drummer.

[Twnty1inRF]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

I would start recording practices/gigs so everyone can hear the train wrecks and start to hear what you hear. Then you may have something to talk about with examples.

+ infinity

We had similar problems with our guitarist (who we have since replaced) and keyboardist (both good players, they just would go feral on stage and not listen/interact with the group). I bought a Zoom H2 and began to record everything and distribute the mp3s to all the band members. Now we can not only point out where the problems occur but demonstrate when/how they are not being resolved (and pinpoint the guilty party).

Things have greatly tightened up since we started this practice. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

[butchblack]

Originally Posted by jaywa

Looking for thoughts on some various things that have been "irking" me about my main band.

This is an all-covers band consisting of 3 guitars (2 of which also trade off on lead vox), drums and myself playing a variety of material from vintage Elvis and Johnny Cash up through classic/80s/90s rock with a few newer country songs thrown in (Brad Paisley, Keith Urban, Brooks & Dunn, Vince Gill). I started the band 3 1/2 years ago and we have only had one personnel change (lead guitar). We have built a pretty good following and a good local "rep" and are getting about 25% more for a show now than when we first started. Our average gig schedule is two nights a month but September will be "big" for us with 5 nights booked including a spot on a high-profile local festival.

The band are all great guys and people always have a great time at our gigs. But, there are some persistent things that are bugging me and that I think are keeping us from going as far as we could. I would appreciate knowing which ones are worth confronting (and how), and which I should just leave alone.

1) We are wildly inconsistent. Some shows we are grooving like crazy, others it's like we've never played the songs with each other before. Actually we are not only inconsistent between shows, but sometimes within them as well (e.g., four or five great songs followed by one that's a total disaster).

2) Our "primary" lead singer only has the lyrics memorized to about half our songs. The rest he has the lyrics written out on cheat sheets he tapes to the side of the mains. I think this looks tacky as heck and sometimes when he's wandering over to look at the lyrics he loses his place in the song. Or he'll quit playing his guitar for a few bars. Is it too much to expect your singer to know all the words to all the songs without any cheat sheets? The rest of us have all memorized our parts.

3) Our other lead singer/guitarist buys a new guitar about every 2-3 months but refuses to upgrade his amp (he has an ancient Peavey 2x12 combo that is heavy as heck and looks and sounds like garbage).

4) Our lead guitarist is a great player with great tone, but his onstage attire is... well... low-rent to say the least. Jeans, a T-shirt with some sort of flannel shirt over top and sometimes a beat-up cap. The rest of us usually try to dress up a little (nice jeans, linen shirt, etc.) and then here's this guy looking like he just finished painting a house or got off the fishing boat.

5) Our guitarists really don't have much concept of dynamics or understand that sometimes it's OK just to let the bass and drums play for awhile.

6) We have only added about 5 new songs to our setlist in three years. The reason being the guitarists refuse to learn new material on their own time and I refuse to waste my time in group practice watching them work through their parts. So, we hardly ever practice.

Like I said, none of these are "band breakers" in my opinion and I have no intention of leaving, but it would be great to hear from some people who have been there as I'm sure none of these issues are new to anyone. Thanks.

My Thoughts;

1) As others have mentioned sometimes things click and sometimes one or more have an off night. A lot of it may tie into #6, if you're hardly ever practicing as a group you'll loose a certain level of tightness.

2) It's certainly reasonable to expect the singer to memorize the words. Again it may go back to #6 not practicing as a group often.

3) You should find out why your guitarist likes his Peavey rig. If he's happy with the sound there is little you'll be able to do to sway him and as the sound's not kick him out of the band bad you may have to live with it. I was in a band in the 80's that the guitarists were tube amp freaks, and I played an Acoustic 220 SS amp through a 15" Theile cab. I quite often got pestered to change, but I was content with the sound I got out of it.

4) That may be best handled as a group going to him and asking him to wear a better shirt and newer/ better jeans. Well before that big gig in Sept would be a good time.

5) That's a very common problem. We still struggle with dynamics in our band, though much of it was our keys/lead singer/leader's fault. Too many guitarists loose the concept of band=team.

6) A lot of your problems could be addresses by practicing as a group often (like weekly).This is probably the issue I'd address first. It will improve your tightness as a band and may help minimize off nights/sets. After awhile your guitarists might get tired of coming to practice unprepared and might start learning their parts at home, likewise the singer would learn the words. Now whether it's possible for them to practice at home is another question as is your ability to get together and rehearse weekly. If not you may have to resign yourself that your going to be a bunch of friends who get together occasionally to play out somewhere.

my 2¢



Good luck

[Silaxian]

..

.. I bought a Zoom H2 and began to record everything and distribute the mp3s to all the band members. Now we can not only point out where the problems occur but demonstrate when/how they are not being resolved (and pinpoint the guilty party).

+1

Recordings do not lie.