Money - All about the Benjamins

[masterFlash]

What do you all think of this
A 500 person Venue\Rock Club
Venue provides lights and sound.
Venue runs ads in 2 different local papers for a month.
Venue provides ticketing.

Venue takes $300 from ticket sales for sound and light.
Plus 20% (after the 300) for operational costs.

So bands get to split (ticketSales -300) * 80%.

Is that about average?

[Freddels]

Who is selling the tickets?

[Joe Louvar]

I think it’s a good deal for the venue (little to no risk) but not for the bands - and there won’t be any pro acts working/performing there (at least not under those terms).

EDIT: For example, if the venue/bar is selling alcohol - the band should get a 20% cut.

Originally Posted by masterFlash

What do you all think of this
A 500 person Venue\Rock Club
Venue provides lights and sound.
Venue runs ads in 2 different local papers for a month.
Venue provides ticketing.

Venue takes $300 from ticket sales for sound and light.
Plus 20% (after the 300) for operational costs.

So bands get to split (ticketSales -300) * 80%.

Is that about average?

[brotherbassj]

I played a venue as an original band that had the same sort of policy. Tickets could be set at $5-15 a piece. You as a band sold them and the house got the first $300.......then you got paid. You basically pulled up and handed them the $300 and unloaded.

Groups in my area have gotten together and done 3-5 band shows to cover the $300. To a degree this makes sense. Why would anyone open there does as a concert venue unless you give them a guarantee? THey pay employees etc.

ANother venue in my arena, where big bands play, charges like $4000 minumum to open their doors on a big night.

Bottom line, if you are playing a VENUE, not a bar or club, then they have to pay their staff and bills............its the way of the world.

[Eric Moesle]

No way. Listen, at the local-club level you can make money but not get rich..... Schemes like this won't ever make you great money.... you'll AT BEST be "just ok" whereas the bar will always be happy.

Pick a flat fee that you are all happy with and just run with it. That way you can plan and nobody will be dissappointed.

[brotherbassj]

Originally Posted by Eric Moesle

No way. Listen, at the local-club level you can make money but not get rich..... Schemes like this won't ever make you great money.... you'll AT BEST be "just ok" whereas the bar will always be happy.

Pick a flat fee that you are all happy with and just run with it. That way you can plan and nobody will be dissappointed.

I don't agree with this sort of scheme(pay to play), however once every other month if you can play a venue like this, have a young band opener and your band sells 100+ tickets, then the payout can be alright. A music venue will not necessarily have the same "regulars" that fill sits like a bar/billards place might. Most cover bands in my area make $250-$750 a night depending on draw and other factors. If you do not have your own PA and lights, that will take a bunch off the top, as you have to rent it. In my area ORIGINAL bands do not make money............

I have been in an original band that had management and was "signed" and made $180 over the course of the first year, played over 50 shows at venues, but got free food and beverages, some clothing, etc. I left that band 1.5 years ago. They are still trying..........have been "signed" again by another company..........no money

Ultimately I am not downplaying it, I have opened for many national bands that sell tickets and make money touring. It's been alot of fun meeting them all and hanging out in the scene

[agreatheight]

IMO

I think it's fine, if you understand what you are getting into. First and foremost, if you are trying to play a big room, you need to be able to fill a big room. If you play a 500 cap venue, you should be able to guarantee (to the extent that you can) that you will fill at least 60%. That is 300 people. Let's say tickets are cheap - $5. That's $1,500. Minus the 20% to the house, that's $1,200 left. Minus $300 for the overhead, that's $900 left. If you are selling merch, that's a solid night.

IMO

[Slough Feg Bass]

yeah, this is pretty common among events that are not put on by any sort of agency or package promoter. They don't know your band from any other band, so they have requirements to clear overhead.
A reputable agency that works with the same kinda 500 seater clubs on a regular basis will not send in acts that can't draw, so those agencies/promoters don't have those same requirements, as it is assumed that covering overhead will not be an issue.

fun stuff.

[bluewine]

Sounds like pay to play to me.

Blue

[masterFlash]

clarifications...
This is not a pay to play.
I don't have to sell tickets. Of course I want to sell tickets.
I could just promote the show and let every one pay at the door, but pushing the tickets ahead of time just lets me better guarantee\estimate the draw.
This isn't a pub\bar show.
Its a rock club show.
(meaning I'm filling the venue not just entertaining existing clientele)

The math on the fees
Gross tickets 3000
minus sound& lights 300
that leavse 2700
3 Bands split 80% (or 2160)

my interest is in the TB Community's experience.
How does this stack up against Concert Halls yall have played, mind you concert halls of a similar capacity.

And thanks for all the response so far. good stuff.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by masterFlash

clarifications...
This is not a pay to play.
3 Bands split 80% (or 2160)

My interest is in the TB Community's experience.
How does this stack up against Concert Halls yall have played, mind you concert halls of a similar capacity.

And thanks for all the response so far. good stuff.

Ive done large scale Festival gigs but never a Concert Hall.

If it's a straight $720.00 for your band, it sounds like a good deal regardless.

Blue

[agreatheight]

Originally Posted by masterFlash

clarifications...
This is not a pay to play.
I don't have to sell tickets. Of course I want to sell tickets.
I could just promote the show and let every one pay at the door, but pushing the tickets ahead of time just lets me better guarantee\estimate the draw.
This isn't a pub\bar show.
Its a rock club show.
(meaning I'm filling the venue not just entertaining existing clientele)

The math on the fees
Gross tickets 3000
minus sound& lights 300
that leavse 2700
3 Bands split 80% (or 2160)

my interest is in the TB Community's experience.
How does this stack up against Concert Halls yall have played, mind you concert halls of a similar capacity.

And thanks for all the response so far. good stuff.

I play in a cover bar band that play for flat money (pretty low money, too, lol), but have good friends in a well respected, solid drawing tribute band in Phoenix. They do a mix of shows, and a couple are very similar to this. I almost subbed a show for them and they way they explained things it was pretty close to the above. They offered to pay me $500 flat, which would have been 1/5 of there normal average payout after kicking the opening bands some coin, so before fees and all that they would net about $3,000 from about $4,000 at the door. That is the rough of it, as I remember it.

[DagoMaino]

This is about the most reasonable situation you can expect from an originals venue gig. Whether it is considered pay to play or not, it seems like a balanced agreement. Band has some pressure to attract people and sell tickets and the venue covers basic costs... seems pretty fair. Even if they required the $300 regardless of ticket sales it would be better than nearly all "pay to play" scenarios I have experienced. If all "pay to play" gigs were this fair not many people would have a problem with them. IMO

[IPYF]

We have a venue here which is a 'pay to play' unless you sell a certain amount of tickets. It's a mugs game. You have to sell 30 tix and then you get all the sales you make on top of that. They get people because most folks think they can sell 30 definite tickets because it doesn't seem like a big number. But you have to remember that you're actually trying to wrangle 30 individual humans. Every band who plays that venue ends up paying the club about $15 each for the 13 tickets they didn't manage to sell. Decent lurk though I reckon. There will always be bands desperate to take those terms.

[Runnerman]

Pretty typical for around my area. $300-$400 for the soundman and a share of the door after that is paid.
Make sure you have someone you trust at the door watching the goings on. Very typical way to get cheated is to low ball the door.

500 pc venue but will you fill it? Who is responsible for promo? If it is the bands, then you are relying on the other two bands to bring in as many as you do....if they don't your fans are paying them not you.

[obimark]

Screw hard and then put up wet, every single, solitary, stupid, idiotic flavor of these "pay-to-play" BS--- WHo gets the money from all the drink and refreshments?? Huh, not you, so you bring 300 people (assumming you can) which we know 85% of the people on this forum are in bands (original and cover) that can't draw 300 people, much less 100!!
So you sell $4500 worth of tickets, the venue makes another $4000-5000 profit on there overpriced drinks, and you walk out with $300 each if you are LUCKY...

Way to go, you've just been had!! Just like Vegas the odds are stacked so far against you winning it ain't funny, and even when you win you are losing!

[bwardmusic]

This sounds OK to me now that you told me gross ticket sales. $300 for a sound man for the night is reasonable, but on the high end of reasonable in my town. Guys will do the sound for $150 to 300 per night. If it's a club, there's no money available to pay the sound man; you have to have your own system.

[Downunderwonder]

The deal seems very fair and upfront to me. A power trio would make out quite well.

Compare it with the costs to organise a byo party with security in a rented hall. The house is taking all the risk on the overheads for 20%, seems almost cheap.

They must be only engaging good bands with some kind of following. From what I read in BM it would appear, as orignial non touring bands go, you are probably in the top bracket of earners.

[masterFlash]

Thanks again for the input here.
I think it's highly valuable to share notes.
I don't play music to earn a living, but I don't want my actions to hurt fellow musicians who do.

The $300 for sound & lights.
I think that's pretty fair, because that's 3 people(2 sound,1 lights) from 7pm-1am(ish) at $15 an hour, that would be $270.

80% of door. Someone I talked to suggested that at 80% capacity (400 people) we should negotiate for 90% of door.
and at capacity we should get 100%.

Joe Louvar suggested getting a cut of the alcohol sales.
Interesting idea...

The venue does advertising web, and 2 months of color adds in 2 different papers.

I don't have to sell tickets, I could just rely on walk up sales but...

My group is not a huge group. I just have a very wide circle of friends. We barely ever play in this area, so I will have a decent turnout. I am going to cement that turnout by pushing the tickets ahead of time. Because we all know that our friends promise to show up, but then something always happens and half don't show up. If they've already bought the ticket then I'm pretty certain they'll be there.

[HolmeBass]

Sounds like a great opportunity if you can draw >200 people.