my bands worst gig ever

violatedppl · #1 10-08-2005, 09:57 PM

we played with local venue just for fun, and the sound man made our lives a living hell, no guitars or drums in the monitors and the stage was tiny. and kept telling everyone to turn down when the FOH wasnt even puting anything but vocals through the mains. I was so pissed over this guy. I hope I am not alone in this and sorry for my rant. but playing without anything but vocals to play off of is impoossible

Munjibunga · #2 10-09-2005, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violatedppl

we played with local venue just for fun, and the sound man made our lives a living hell, no guitars or drums in the monitors and the stage was tiny. and kept telling everyone to turn down when the FOH wasnt even puting anything but vocals through the mains. I was so pissed over this guy. I hope I am not alone in this and sorry for my rant. but playing without anything but vocals to play off of is impoossible

Sooaahhh, did you turn down your stage rigs? Stage amps too loud is one of the most common frustrations of a sound man. He can turn up the vocals only so far before they feed back, usually in the monitors (this is called gain before feedback ... it has a limit). If your stage amps are so loud that he can't get the vocals over them without feedback, he is just going to take the loud instruments out of the mix and do the best he can to get the vocals over you. Besides, if the stage amps are so loud that he has to tell you to turn them down, why do you need them in the monitors, too?

When I mix a band who's too silly and self-centered to turn down the stage amps, I do exactly the same thing. I suspect the problem was on the stage, not at the board. Too many musicians have no respect for the overall mix of the band. They just want me, me, me, loud, loud, loud.

wmikew · #3 10-09-2005, 01:51 AM

I think you hit the nail right on the head, Munji. We recently had a situation like this at my church, except I was the bass player who wanted to be loud... hehe... We were told to turn down our stage amps, and did not explain WHY, so I was very ticked at first because I could not hear myself play. Sure enough, he cranked us up in the monitors and I could hear myself through the monitors with my stage amp on a low volume. If only they had explained to us why they always had us turned off in the monitors, we would have been happy to turn down our stage amps. So it wasnt really a case of us wanting to be extremely loud, it was just a lack of communication.

That's probably the same thing that happened to you, violated.

chaosMK · #4 10-09-2005, 03:53 PM

Ive had similar situations my last few shows. Either no monitors or disfunctional monitors. Usually the problem when performing came around was the drummer not being able to hear the other parts. We got thrown off a few times, but always recovered in a measure or less. I think this type of stuff isnt too unusual and just something you have to get used to.

violatedppl · #5 10-09-2005, 10:18 PM

no he said turn down so I did, to the point to were I could not hear myself standing infront of my rig, all of the band felt the same way. no one could hear anything but vocals. it seemed like the guy had a crap load of monitors just none of them had any of the guitars or drums going through them

FriscoBassAce · #6 10-09-2005, 11:31 PM

I was surfing around the other day on a Pro Sound Forum board, and I came across this guy who was answering newbs questions, and he had a link to his own website in his sig line. Being the curious fellow that I am, I took a look. This guy had some pretty informative things to say from a sound man's perspective. In particular, he had an essay about stage volume. Go

here

to read it.

Warning...there is one instance of profanity....he uses the word bullsh**....so please don't be offended.

Mods: If this violates any rules, please edit my post so that it doesn't violate the rules...sorry!

Eric Moesle · #7 10-11-2005, 11:56 AM

You said it was a small stage, therefore there could be NO POSSIBLE NEED WHATSOEVER to have drums in the monitors, EVER. Guitars, doubt that as well. You should have VOCALS ONLY in the monitors on a small stage, and that's it.

Anything else, and you're playing for your own jollies as opposed to trying to sound good for the audience.

kansas666 · #8 10-11-2005, 01:31 PM

If you are on a tiny stage, you probably have you amplifier pointing at the audience and your feet. Of course you won't hear it. I recommend getting a stand that angles the amp up towards your head so that you can hear it. Better yet - put your amp in front of you pointed back. That way, you can hear all the amp you want and the FOH can get a balanced mix out of the pa.

Joe P · #9 10-11-2005, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Moesle

You said it was a small stage, therefore there could be NO POSSIBLE NEED WHATSOEVER to have drums in the monitors, EVER. Guitars, doubt that as well. You should have VOCALS ONLY in the monitors on a small stage, and that's it...

I've played a couple private house gigs inwhich we ran everything directly to the board - electric drums, Bass DI, guitar 'Pod', and vocs. It's amazing how loud and full you can get the room pumped-up with music that way; no sound sources are fighting each other. Everything goes to the monitors then (including drums, of course).

Speaking of drums - even in a quieter, smaller setting, with acoustic drums - I usually use at-least a kick and two overheads on the drums, and put the O.H.s in the mains and at least one of the monitor mixes. I want the drums to be in the same stereo field as the rest of the instruments in the mains, I want drums to be included in the effects sends for the mains, and I want the drums (including kick) to at-least to some extent to affect the mains compression. As for monitors - The drummer in one band I'm with wears Vic Firth super-isolating headphones; he needs his drums in his mix, of course.

You don't think I'm spun - do you Eric?

Joe

Eric Moesle · #10 10-11-2005, 02:25 PM

No, I'm in a loud cover band that plays at least twice a week. EVERY instrument is in the mains, every drum is mic'ed. I use two 4x10's for most gigs. However, only the vocals are in the monitors, except the drummer likes a tad of his kick drum in his monitor. Its a tiny bit, a luxury that he can easily do without.

To think what would happen if we had mic'ed drums in our monitors, as well as guitars, would be frightening. Its already too damned loud as it is. Electronic drums are a whole different scenario, you NEED them in the monitors since there isn't any acoustic volume coming off of them. To put guitars in the monitor mixes is an abomination, except for the largest of stages.

basspunk2005 · #11 10-11-2005, 03:15 PM

To be honest mate, in my band all we put through the monitors are the vocals, all the amps are fine and the vocals are still able to be heard, then again myself and my bro are the soundmen to our band lol, it may sound like a bad idea but it works out really well. But yea it takes a bit of tweaking to get it right from what you have been saying.

jbennardo · #12 10-11-2005, 03:49 PM

He ABSOLUTELY insists on mic'ing his cab... EVERYWHERE. Practice, gigs, wants it in the monitors. Like Munji said, loud, loud, loud, me me me.

Makes life difficult for us when we're in charge of our own PA. Nobody can talk him down. I'm actually relieved when we have a sound man since he'll smack the guitar player around.

I very rarely get mic'd or put through the board. I have to lobby pretty hard and still get the "bass is more of a frequency and feeling than a tone. It fills the room and your rig is more than adequate"

violatedppl · #13 10-12-2005, 01:48 AM

yes it was a small stage, I had to move to the other side of the stage just to be able to get confortable. I was not running through the FOH and for the one who suggested the stand, it would be hard to find a stand that would hold my 412 without it being heavy as hell and be huge. and standing right infront of the guitarist amp I still couldnt hear them, they just had no stage volume. Also I asked the sound guy before we started nicely if he would run a monitor mix of me because I know I cant hear my rig unless I am a few feet away which wouldnt have been a problem but he was in the band after mine and they already had ALL their gear onstage. and he was running a 810 which killed all stage space that might have been left.

jbennardo · #14 10-12-2005, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violatedppl

Also I asked the sound guy before we started nicely .......... but he was in the band after mine and they already had ALL their gear onstage. and he was running a 810 which killed all stage space that might have been left.

Think we've found your problem.. I'm a conspiracy theorist. AND it sounds like he was the bass player?

violatedppl · #15 10-16-2005, 02:17 AM

yes he was a bassist and seemed like a nice guy. but I think it is just me complaining about my first bad experience with a sound guy I know more are to come, but the first time sucked. also my band had the brilliant idea of playing a song none of use had played in about three months and its one I had never liked and the song breaks down into sort of a drum solo and the drums just stopped, first 3 songs kicked ass second three made up for first three kicking butt