Is my drummer overreacting?

Vic Winters · #1 02-12-2007, 04:10 AM

Today at band practice one of my best friends (who is my drummer in my other band) stopped by to hang and watch us jam. He also has a few connections to this group. He lets the other drummer use his set since both bands practice at my house. Plus he's auditoned to sing for the band before and made it, but since he goes to college an hour away, and we have a show very soon, he isn't singing for us at this point, and it's uncertain if he will in the future. To be honest, he's a very proficent drummer, he's done percussion in school since he was 8 or so. Even though he's more technically skilled, he only makes positive comments about the other drummer, both in person and to me in private. He even suggested to me that she sit in for him for a few songs at a show we did a while back so that he could concentrate on singing. Yet for some reason, she feels uncomfortable in his presence. She thinks he's judging her and looking down upon her. Nothing could be further from the truth. The whole time he was there, he was nodding along to the music and watching what she played. During a break, he asked nicely if she'd mind him sitting in and trying to work something out, since we modified the riff a bit and she was having a hard time coming up with something for it. I've known my friend for a long time. He wasn't trying to cut in, or show boat or take her spot. He was just trying to help us out, because that's just his personality. He was on the set for maybe 10 minutes. Halfway through she walked off in a silent, but obviously pissed off mode. After he left, the band discussed it, I defended my friend, saying it wasn't a personal attack on her or him trying to take over, just help. But she wouldn't hear it, and one of the guitarists also sided with her. Is it her being a b**ch? I know her mom is also a drummer, and apparently her mom tells her that she isn't good at drums (supportive parents are great aren't they?). But is that any reason to manifest that feeling upon someone else? Let alone someone who lets you use their equipment and only makes compliments about your playing ability? If she can't handle constructive criticism from a friendly drummer/possible bandmate, how is she going to take it from 3 other drummers when we play our show in less than 2 weeks?

Am I right? Am I wrong? Help me out here.

IanStephenson · #2 02-12-2007, 04:33 AM

audiences are for gigs. rehersals are for the band.

If you want to invite your friends over do it on your own time.

Yes she probably is being over sensitive, but its hardly surprising - would you want a great bass player checking you out while your learning new songs? theres also some "script" things going on, but thats not the point.

She's in the band, he isn't. She's supposed to be at the rehersal. He isn't. case closed.

Ian

morf · #3 02-12-2007, 05:45 AM

I (respectfully) disagree with Ian. I would be thrilled if a better bass player came over to my practice to give me pointers. I think the chick drummer is completely overreacting.

What I would do is get both of your drummers together and have a talk between you three. You're the rhythm people and you should be able to work things out easily. Have your guy drummer give your girl drummer compliments on her playing for a start, then move forward.

MazeMouse · #4 02-12-2007, 05:54 AM

If she can't even take it from someone OUT of the band how is she EVER going to take it from someone IN the band?

She should be gratefull someone is supportive and actually trying to help her.

Vic Winters · #5 02-12-2007, 05:56 AM

The one guitar player brought his girlfriend today, that was no problem. Granted she doesn't play an instrument, but it's still an audience, and outside feedback is welcome in my opinion. Personally I'd rather have feedback from a fellow musician since they can pick things up a normal person won't.

To be clear it wasn't a new song, it's slightly altering an older song of ours.

To answer your question, I wouldn't mind a awesome bassist giving me pointers, enjoying the groove and complimenting my playing. Especially if he was gracious enough to let me use his bass, and full rig to practice and perform with. I can take constructive criticism. If he suggested I play quarter notes instead of eigth notes, I'd give it a shot, but it would still be my call to make since I'm the one playing the song. I wouldn't get all pissy about it. It's supposed to be about having fun, it's not a competition.

FYI: When I got the call about this show from one of the guitar players, he mentioned my friend's name and asked if he was still interested in singing for the band. Considering he tried out, and was accepted during the summer by all members of the band, I take that as meaning he is in some way a part of the band. The fact that the band hasn't practiced from August to December, and that the current situation calls for a different arrangement due to time constraints, shouldn't change the situaiton in the long run. The band stated openly that we could have a slot open for him when things calm down.

I don't understand why she feels threatened when he's just sitting there or trying to be helpful. And if my friend does become the band's singer, am I going to have to put up with her being intimidated the whole time? And if by some chance we go into a studio at some point, is she going to react the same way to a producer critquing her and telling her what to do?

morf · #6 02-12-2007, 06:02 AM

So wait, I missed a couple of facts here.

Not only is he letting her use his kit, but hes also a singer in this very band? And he shouldn't be allowed to give feedback to a drummer less good than he is even though he stays polite and nice and supportive?

Dump the girl, or work things out, this could degenerate into something bad in the future, best fix it while its not a big problem

PalaNIN · #7 02-12-2007, 06:02 AM

I think the biggest problem here is the word she. I hate generalising, but female musicians (ok more like females in general) tend to overreact and take things the wrong way a lot more than men.

If she's getting all that negative comments from her Mum, then it's not surprising that anyone else that's hearing her play is going to appear as a negative figure as well.

At the very least, just tell your drummer that your friend is just trying to help out.

Dee Dubya · #8 02-12-2007, 06:05 AM

Yeah, I disagree Ian, but to an extent.

My band has a mutual friend who is a God at Guitar, Bass and Drums. He taught my Guitarist and I our first songs. He's a great friendly guy who is always looking to help.

Whenever we can we get him in to give us pointers. You could almost say he's our Producer of sorts. I love having him there, because everybody needs pointers now and then.

However, he's always respectful when he's there, he heaps compliments on us as a band because he didn't expect us to get so far so fast. He makes you feel comfortable, and I could easily see myself just not wanting to be there with other people.

By the sounds of it, your drummer is both over reacting and acting reasonably. It seems like your friend is just trying to help, and there doesn't appear to be any animosity, so if your drummer wants to hear nothing of an explanation, that's being a bit stupid.

But to her, she is being judged and compared to something she feels can't stack up against, and considering the mother's comment, it's hardly surprising she is a bit sensitive.

Of course, it would be too hard for her to just say to his face, "Hey, I know you mean well, but your making me uncomfortable, could you please do this, this and this..."

EDIT: It seems like your drummer really needs someone to sit her down and say, "**** what your mum says, your good for these reasons." I think your friend might be the right person to do it.

Vic Winters · #9 02-12-2007, 06:21 AM

He isn't the singer as of right now due to the fact that we have so little time to prepare, and he's transferred do a different college an hour away. If he was still at the same college as the rest of us, he would be singing.

His status is up in the air because he tried out and was accepted into the band in late summer. Pretty much right after that, practices came to an abrupt halt due to various reasons, mainly conflicting school and work scheduals once September rolled around. I got the call informing me about the gig January 21st. The problem was, that gave us with a month to prepare (gig is Feb 22nd). Also, classes at his new college started January 23rd. So due to the current situation, one of the guitarists is singing. But during a band meeting that included him last week, it was stated that nothing is set in stone, and that after this show, we'll just play it by ear and see how it goes since we didn't really have a chance to get a feel for each other earlier.

dlloyd · #10 02-12-2007, 06:28 AM

No, your drummer is not over-reacting. It's something that drives me nuts.

I've had major problems with rehearsals descending into some sort of social club/private gig for hangers-on. We have our own studio and are there at specific times... we often get people turning up just as everyone's arriving, just to hang out and hear us play. Regardless of whether or not the "guests" are musicians theirselves (they generally all are), their presence inhibits the ability of the band to do any real work and my time is wasted.

If I want "helpful pointers" on my playing, I'll book a lesson.

morf · #11 02-12-2007, 06:30 AM

Put this into context. You're a professional musician working in a studio and you've been playing for quite some time now. Not to mention you play jazz, they seem to be a rock band as far as I can tell.

dlloyd · #12 02-12-2007, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morf

Put this into context. You're a professional musician working in a studio and you've been playing for quite some time now. Not to mention you play jazz, they seem to be a rock band as far as I can tell.

Nope, I'm not a professional musician... I've been semi-professional in the past (taught a few nights a week, got the odd payment for gigs) but it's never been my main income. Right now I'm as amateur as the next guy.

Nor am I playing jazz with my current band. It's fairly heavy Indie rock stuff we play. Does that surprise you?

Jazz Ad · #13 02-12-2007, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

audiences are for gigs. rehersals are for the band.

If you want to invite your friends over do it on your own time.

Yes she probably is being over sensitive, but its hardly surprising - would you want a great bass player checking you out while your learning new songs? theres also some "script" things going on, but thats not the point.

She's in the band, he isn't. She's supposed to be at the rehersal. He isn't. case closed.

Ian

+1.

morf · #14 02-12-2007, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlloyd

Nope, I'm not a professional musician... I've been semi-professional in the past (taught a few nights a week, got the odd payment for gigs) but it's never been my main income. Right now I'm as amateur as the next guy.

Nor am I playing jazz with my current band. It's fairly heavy Indie rock stuff we play. Does that surprise you?

It actually does! But not in a bad way

My bad then, seems I got the wrong picture in my head.

agreatheight · #15 02-12-2007, 07:07 AM

I think it's a bit like letting someone watch you hump your girlfriend / boyfriend... and the letting watcher show you how to do it better

. Even with the best of intentions, some people are game for that kind of input, but the overwhelming majority are not.

So this is a personal situation and ego is involved. If she didn't ASK for help I'd take that to mean she didn't WANT for help, so he should not have given it.

Back her up on this.

dlloyd · #16 02-12-2007, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Winters

During a break, he asked nicely if she'd mind him sitting in and trying to work something out, since we modified the riff a bit and she was having a hard time coming up with something for it. I've known my friend for a long time. He wasn't trying to cut in, or show boat or take her spot. He was just trying to help us out, because that's just his personality. He was on the set for maybe 10 minutes.

As far as I'm concerned, that was way out of order, even if it was his drum kit.

SBassman · #17 02-12-2007, 07:25 AM

Rehearsals are for band members only. It's as simple as that.

MetalAxxe · #18 02-12-2007, 08:00 AM

Oh come on! You really can't be that sensitive. If the guy WOULD sing in your band and told her that he doesen't like the drum part she's playing, then what? She's not from pre-school anymore. If she can't take a little criticism(not to mention advice), then you should dump her and get a new drummer. Simple as that. I don't like other people at rehersals either, but when someone helps me out a bit or tells me my line is crappy or whatever, I don't march away pissed or tell him to f**k off, I hear him out and learn from it, and if he gives me bad advice, I'll ignore it. Attitude problem is one of the worst problems a band can have. I mean, when you have a gig and someone yells "you suck", and she marches away from the stage, you're jinxed. Talk to her about it and if she doesn't get reasonable, dump her and get a new drummer, period.

policyvote · #19 02-12-2007, 09:01 AM

I gotta say, she's not overreacting. Saying that this guy is "in the band" when he can't even play with you nine months out of the year is kind of silly. Having him watch rehearsals (but not participate) kind of strange--rehersals are for the band. If dude is in the band, he should be REHEARSING, not watching. And finally, if this girl is your drummer, then she is your drummer. If I was in a band where they had an old bass player who was really good, and that bassist started coming to every rehearsal and watching my every note intensely, I would feel put upon, too. And THEN when I had trouble with a section, if they walked up and took the bass out of my hands and played for ten minutes, I would rightly think that I wasn't really the bassist in that band. I would have told them right then they could have him or me but not me while he looms over my shoulder.

She's right, you guys need to either make this guy really part of the band--i.e., he needs to SING--or kick him out of rehearsals.

Oh, and -1 to the comment about about it being a female thing. Maybe because she's a girl, she's taking these personal insults more personally instead of blowing them off. But it doesn't change the fact that she's being insulted.

Peace
policy

Eilif · #20 02-12-2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

audiences are for gigs. rehersals are for the band.

If you want to invite your friends over do it on your own time.

Yes she probably is being over sensitive, but its hardly surprising - would you want a great bass player checking you out while your learning new songs? theres also some "script" things going on, but thats not the point.

She's in the band, he isn't. She's supposed to be at the rehersal. He isn't. case closed.

Ian

+2

She is being sensitive, and she is not receptive to the possible benefits of the other drummers experience. However, the fact remains that SHE is the drummer, not him. As long as she is the drummer, that role is her turf, not to be comprimised unless she agrees to it first. If he's a singer, have him there to sing, or keep him out.

It's a harsh line, and I grant that she could stand to be more open to criticism, but it's a professional way to handle the situation.