need advice

[woodyTUH]

yo, i have a problem.
I've played in the same band for near 2 years (2 years in june). We've gigged an insane amount but . .

on friday night i said somethin thats been reported back to my vocalist and guitarplayer.
i was having drinks with friends when one said they wanted to cover one of my bands songs but making it metal. i knew they were kidding etc so i replied "no i wouldnt theres no good songs that would work for that"
Someone who was there has told my vocalist this, and he's now claiming i said i didnt like the songs at all. i didn't say this. so i think they've kicked me out.

thing is, when we played shows i never ever saw any of the cash, it went into a "band fund" that would be used for recording or buying things the band needed.
Fairly recently my vocalist claimed we needed a new PA (IMO we didn't), the rest of the band were like "yeah ok" so they bought one. Few weeks later my vocalist decideds he really needs an SM58. So out comes the cash from the band fund and he gets it. Thing is he only appeared to use it for his solo recordings and solo stuff.

so like if i'm not in the band anymore, where do i stand?
I mean technically 1/4 of the PA and all that is mine.
I really would appriacta any advice.

cheers

[IanStephenson]

sounds like theres more going on than the simple version. Reordering the events cronologically:

The singer cleans out the band fund, and is working hard on solo stuff... You say something potentially annoying, but basicaly inocent, and the vocalist and decides to split the band up?

Sounds like he's been thinking about it for a while, and just needed an excuse to get mad enough to do it...

Ian

[woodyTUH]

Well the band are, currently, still together.
The lead guitarist and drummer didn't really do anything decent, like wouldn't go "you know, i think we should try this?"

i was happy to suggest things but the vocalist wouldn't ever change his mind. I think he was annoyed i would be willing to contest things (civily i might add) or that i tried to make my stuff a little more interesting. If he'd got his way i'd have been stuck playing full blown roots the whole time, even times when i proper line would work.

Just really annoying. If they've kicked me out, would you agree i'm entitled to 1/4 of the PA and that?

cheers for the answer too

[Jim Carr]

I'm sorry this has happened to you. Most of us have been in similar political kerfuffles....

Such drama is avoided with contracts and rules. Boring, right?

My advice for now: Kiss the money and the singer goodbye, get in a new and better band. Next time, a written agreement about funds, gear, rights, and responsibilites is a good idea.

Be nice to the other guys, you may recruit them in the future, as it seems the singer will be driving others out or going on his/her own, anyway. Good luck and practice a lot!

[Vanceman]

1/4 of everything bought with the band fund belongs to you.

That's why band funds should be spend on consumables, like beer and sushi. Good luck getting any money out of them.

[lamarjones]

seriously, grab a quarter of the pa, even if it is just a monitor.

you can tell them that is what you are gonna do up front if you want, and you can also explain to everyone BUT the singer your reasoning. I said it somewhere else in a thread about guitar snobbery, the only thing I have ever experienced is singer drama.

[wingnut]

I was in the same situation a few years back. The band fund paid for a PA and some mics and cords etc... The time came when we had problems (chick lead singer). I didn't ask for my portion of the equipment. I told them I would TAKE my portion or they could PAY for my portion. So I took my portion and the singer called the cops three days later stating that I had broke into the practice room. It got real ugly! I did keep the stuff, however it took taking photos of the band together to court. So keep all those cheesy photos of gigs! If the equipment is low dollar and you think there's a chance of hooking back up with some of the other members, I would right it off to experience and move on...

[CrashClint]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

Such drama is avoided with contracts and rules. Boring, right?

My advice for now: Kiss the money and the singer goodbye, get in a new and better band. Next time, a written agreement about funds, gear, rights, and responsibilites is a good idea.

Be nice to the other guys, you may recruit them in the future, as it seems the singer will be driving others out or going on his/her own, anyway. Good luck and practice a lot!

I totally agree with Jim on this one. We had a written agreement in a band I played in a few years back. Back then we were gigging 1-2 times a week. My neighbor was a CPA and volunteered to keep our books. I remember some of the break down of our agreement.

1- New set of bass strings a month
1- New set of guitar strings per guitar a week
Drum heads as needed (torn usually)
1- New set of drum sticks a week
- Cables as needed including Mic and Guitar (We bought lifetime cables)
- Microphones if they went bad
- Amplifier repairs as needed

You get the idea, our CPA gave us monthly earnings and dispersement reports. If we were going to buy a new PA, then it needed to be agreed upon by everyone. Our CPA normally facilitated these discussions.

I know we played a few places where our PA was not powerful enough so we ended up renting equipment.

I guess to make a long story short, in our agreement if someone quit the band they were not entitled to compensation. If someone was fired from the band, they were entitled to their percentage of all community property taking depreciation of equimpment into account. When as a band we decided to disband, each member had the option of purchasing the community bought equipment or selling off their assets to another member. I think the lead singer ended up buying the PA and Mics. The monetary assets (money in the bank) were split up equally among the members.

When it comes to having a agreement or buying equipment it is good to have a 3rd party facilitator that is not tied to the band. You can find a Paralegal that will write you up an agreement for about $50. I would recommend using a program like Quicken to do the bands accounting. If you open a bank account under the band, make sure you have it set up where it requiers two signatures on checks and make sure the bass player is one of the check signers considering we are less flakey than guitarist.

Hope this helps for later down the road.

[Phalex]

Sheesh!!

If I was in a band that played tunes I didn't like..... No wait a minute. I do play tunes I don't like. Who gives a crap if you like the tunes you play or not?? Do they sound good??

Sounds like a case of guitar player / singer elitism to me. Do they have a problem with how you are playing what you're playing?? That's the only thing that matters.

Is it one of those original bands that think they are the next coming of Christ?? I used to play with a guy like that. Used to.

[Jim Carr]

CrashClint, thanks for this! I hope others will take it seriously. Even with the best of intentions, a band is a business AND an artistic colaboration, and either part can go off the rails (or even both, as in this case). The business side is often neglected, much to the sorrow of many.

These are good guidelines. The PA issue is always one of the hardest because of costs. Another way to do it is to have the system divided into shares "owned" by each contributing band member. A departing member gets to take their share when they go as cash (assuming they have purchased them), and the band must therefore keep the buy out value of all the owner shares in the bank. This amount goes down over time as the system depreciates, and can be calculated by a 3rd party, based on average values of recent ebay/craigslist transactions.

It also gives the band freedom to hire people who don't own shares in the current PA. Eventually, when the old PA is to be replaced, the sale of the system can be combined with new funds and the cycle begins again. Those who had shares in the old system get more shares in the new one based on the sale value of the old one.

Originally Posted by CrashClint

I totally agree with Jim on this one. We had a written agreement in a band I played in a few years back. Back then we were gigging 1-2 times a week. My neighbor was a CPA and volunteered to keep our books. I remember some of the break down of our agreement.

1- New set of bass strings a month
1- New set of guitar strings per guitar a week
Drum heads as needed (torn usually)
1- New set of drum sticks a week
- Cables as needed including Mic and Guitar (We bought lifetime cables)
- Microphones if they went bad
- Amplifier repairs as needed

You get the idea, our CPA gave us monthly earnings and dispersement reports. If we were going to buy a new PA, then it needed to be agreed upon by everyone. Our CPA normally facilitated these discussions.

I know we played a few places where our PA was not powerful enough so we ended up renting equipment.

I guess to make a long story short, in our agreement if someone quit the band they were not entitled to compensation. If someone was fired from the band, they were entitled to their percentage of all community property taking depreciation of equimpment into account. When as a band we decided to disband, each member had the option of purchasing the community bought equipment or selling off their assets to another member. I think the lead singer ended up buying the PA and Mics. The monetary assets (money in the bank) were split up equally among the members.

When it comes to having a agreement or buying equipment it is good to have a 3rd party facilitator that is not tied to the band. You can find a Paralegal that will write you up an agreement for about $50. I would recommend using a program like Quicken to do the bands accounting. If you open a bank account under the band, make sure you have it set up where it requiers two signatures on checks and make sure the bass player is one of the check signers considering we are less flakey than guitarist.

Hope this helps for later down the road.

[woodyTUH]

yo again, cheers so much for the help.

I'm still on okish terms with the rest of the band, just this damned vocalist.

and yeah i did enjoy the songs, even though i havent been able/allowed to get a proper bass line in a song since ages ago.

but that didnt worry me, if i got fills (that i could fit, and fit the song) i was happy.
I said long ago that i wanted a bank account. But the rest thought it was pointless.

One problem re: the pa is that the rest of the band are basically sheep and do what the singer says.

And regarding getting another band; i've already had 2 band offers and 3 guitarists looking to start so thats not a problem, and being better...well the band themselves admitted they were better once i joined. Back then they could only play 3 chord songs.
I am curious what will happen with the band though; if they'll carry on kinda acousticly, or if they'l lget another bassist, or if they'll split.

cheers again for the help . if anyone wants to actually listen to the band i think its in my sig. Nothing spectacuar i feel. .

[QORC]

ah what I said was redundant with the above.

lessons learned. move on.

[Steve]

Dude, as soon as they said you ain't gettin' paid, you should have told them to pound salt.

[Joe P]

Originally Posted by Steve

Dude, as soon as they said you ain't gettin' paid, you should have told them to pound salt.

Yup.

Joe