Need some advice about my drummer.

[easyvision]

So here's the script. I joined this band around May last year, they had been together for a good few months before I came along. At the time, we were all about the same skill level.

Thing is, me, the guitarist and the singer have all improved, we've clearly got better and a lot tighter. Unfortunately, our drummer hasn't. Every week he seems to be lagging behind quite a bit.

The stuff we do is a bit eclectic, but there's always a funk undertone. He seems to be thinking too much. He's not allowing himself to get into the groove and getting that delicate balance of tightness, yet keeping everything loose and freeflowing.

We've had a chat with him at the last jam. We were as constructive as possible, pointing out areas we think he could improve, what he's doing well, that we want this band to work and start gigging regularly asap but we all have to be on the same wave length. He didn't take it well at all, the tension was unbearable. In hindsight, we probably should have had the chat at the end of the jam, rather than at the beginning.

Now things are getting a tad more complicated. We have 2 gigs lined up in March, one of them being very important to me, at least on a personal level. So at our next jam, he's got to show a mass amount of improvement or he's out. We don't have time to wait around for him to get better. I have another drummer ready to go if need be, who will be able to get the material under his belt in time.

My question to you, if you've made it through the essay, is do you think we're being a bit too harsh? Also if he doesn't improve, what would you say the best way to break it to him would be? Any other thoughts that might help the situation?

It's really not ideal, we like the guy but he's just not cutting it anymore.

Thanks for taking the time to make it through all that!

[IncX]

i was in a situation like that...

i made the mistake of taking it too seriously... and it ended with the drummer feeling really bad, which affected the guitarist terribly since he and the drummer are close friends... and pretty soon the band broke up.

i guess it depends on your situation really. in my case, i made the mistake of taking it too seriously. being in a band with a so-so drummer is a lot more fun than not having a band ... or having a drummer you cant get along.

[QORC]

your last line is the only important one..

"but he's just not cutting it anymore."


If you care about the band, you find someone new. You will probably do it sooner or later, so you might as well do it now. It's painful, but the weak link in a band can drag the rest down.

I know. We went through it a year ago. the numb-nuts of a drummer STILL hasn't gotten over it...acting like a child, and he's 51 years old!! I guess we made the right call, huh?

but it took the band 2 years of coaching, encouraging, complaining behind his back before the band leader finally agreed to replace him. And we are SOOOOOOOOOO much better now. I wish the rest of the band had the balls to move on this sooner. We wasted 2 years beyond what we should have.

Friends are friends. but if the band is important to you at all, it's a business first. And first in this business is that everyone is good at their instruments and it all blends together well. When it doesn't, someone has to go.

[TripleDouble]

+1 to IncX's post. nuff said.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by easyvision

I have another drummer ready to go if need be, who will be able to get the material under his belt in time.

Very smart move. Too many bands fire a guy in the heat of the moment before they have a replacement on the line. Then they're really hosed.

Paying gigs with an average drummer are a lot better than no drummer, no band and no gigs. Or worse yet, having to cancel gigs already on the books which pretty much puts your band on the s**tlist at that venue going forward.

[Nev375]

I'm going to side with the drummer on this one. You say you were all the same skill level when you joined and decided to make a go of it as a "band".

Now obviously, the rest of you are more gifted at learning than the drummer. But this is not something that the drummer has a lot of control over. It's not as if he's getting stoned or drunk and his playing is suffering because of a choice he has made.

Of course he's going to react poorly when you confront him on this. You are basically telling him that he is going to lose all his hard work and time he has invested with this project (which I assume is something he loves being a part of) unless he suddenly improves his IQ ...or whatever it is that is holding him back. I'm sure he would choose to be a virtuoso drummer for you if only he knew how.

Where's the sense of commitment to each other? The brotherhood that should exist amongst band members? In my opinion, you should accept each other as you all are, warts and all. He isn't the only one with faults as everyone needs improvement somewhere.

Take the assets you DO have and find a way to make it all work together and be damn thankful that you have what you have. It could be worse. You could have a drummer with way better chops and a lot worse attitude.

[HeadyVan Halen]

If the drummer is not good, the band is not good.

Use as needed.

[jaywa]

I think the prototypical example of what Nev is talking about is U2. Those guys could barely play their instruments when they first started as a band. But together they forged a style that turned their significant individual limitations into a collective strength and something that wound up being highly marketable in the bargain.

It's really a question of whether you, the guitarist and the singer are willing to scale back your music from a technical perspective for the sake of protecting the group dynamic. Have you guys played any gigs? It seems like your original drummer at least deserves the courtesy of gigging live with you guys before you cut him loose. And who knows, maybe he's just a guy that's shaky in rehearsal situations but will step it up in a live situation. I've played with guys like that before.

[dtsamples]

I don't know about this, man. True, the rhythm section can make or break a band, but it takes more than prowess to make a band work. A band is a relationship. Replacing a guy who doesn't want to be replaced sets the tone for the project. I'd get rid of this guy only as long as you're willing to be replaced by a better bassist for the good of the band when one comes along. You guys still have a lot of time to get tight.

Now, if he doesn't want to work at it, that's another story.

[dtsamples]

Originally Posted by easyvision

We've had a chat with him at the last jam. We were as constructive as possible, pointing out areas we think he could improve, what he's doing well, that we want this band to work and start gigging regularly asap but we all have to be on the same wave length. He didn't take it well at all, the tension was unbearable. In hindsight, we probably should have had the chat at the end of the jam, rather than at the beginning.

It's natural to get defensive when all your buds in the room surprise you with something like this. Let it settle a bit and see how he feels. His problem probably wasn't with what you were saying but rather with how and when you were saying it.

[jgroh]

Originally Posted by Nev375

I'm going to side with the drummer on this one. You say you were all the same skill level when you joined and decided to make a go of it as a "band".

Now obviously, the rest of you are more gifted at learning than the drummer. But this is not something that the drummer has a lot of control over. It's not as if he's getting stoned or drunk and his playing is suffering because of a choice he has made.

Of course he's going to react poorly when you confront him on this. You are basically telling him that he is going to lose all his hard work and time he has invested with this project (which I assume is something he loves being a part of) unless he suddenly improves his IQ ...or whatever it is that is holding him back. I'm sure he would choose to be a virtuoso drummer for you if only he knew how.

Where's the sense of commitment to each other? The brotherhood that should exist amongst band members? In my opinion, you should accept each other as you all are, warts and all. He isn't the only one with faults as everyone needs improvement somewhere.

Take the assets you DO have and find a way to make it all work together and be damn thankful that you have what you have. It could be worse. You could have a drummer with way better chops and a lot worse attitude.

+1...or is he just not doing his homework? Is he practicing on his own? If he is just using band rehearsals as the only practice then that is a problem that you can blame on him.

[Jools4001]

Look at it this way. If bassists or guitarists want to practise something, they just pick up their instrument and play it unplugged if necessary. A drummer either has to set up their kit and find somewhere and sometime, that they can make all kinds of racket without disturbing family or neighbours. The only option is to go to all the expense of buying an electronic kit or a full set of practise pads (but apart from high end electonic kits they can be a long way second best). Also they have to have space to leave the kit assembled...think of it this way, if you had to set up your full rig everytime you wanted to try something out would you practise as much?

Just sayin', it may be one of the reasons that your drummers progress is slower than yours.

[Randy Warren]

nope, QORC is correct, NO organization will perform well, or at all, with mediocre members, that is the first rule of any organization. The second rule is to get rid of anyone who is a malcontent, which is what my old band did to me! Of course, I had good reasons to be discontented with the old band, like the leader never practiced except at rehearsals, etc... if the drummer is not keeping up, he is probably not practicing, our drummer never even listened to the songs on the set list until at rehearsals, besides the fact that he couldn't keep time even if you shoved a clock up his arse... The last two rehearsal were to go over each of the set list with him and a metronome and Excel the timings and tempos for him, what a load! Get the new drummer in!

[tdub0199]

Originally Posted by Nev375

I'm going to side with the drummer on this one. You say you were all the same skill level when you joined and decided to make a go of it as a "band".

Now obviously, the rest of you are more gifted at learning than the drummer. But this is not something that the drummer has a lot of control over. It's not as if he's getting stoned or drunk and his playing is suffering because of a choice he has made.

Of course he's going to react poorly when you confront him on this. You are basically telling him that he is going to lose all his hard work and time he has invested with this project (which I assume is something he loves being a part of) unless he suddenly improves his IQ ...or whatever it is that is holding him back. I'm sure he would choose to be a virtuoso drummer for you if only he knew how.

Where's the sense of commitment to each other? The brotherhood that should exist amongst band members? In my opinion, you should accept each other as you all are, warts and all. He isn't the only one with faults as everyone needs improvement somewhere.

Take the assets you DO have and find a way to make it all work together and be damn thankful that you have what you have. It could be worse. You could have a drummer with way better chops and a lot worse attitude.

+1000... I quit my last band, then I started forming another band, recruted two bad @$$ guitarist and we have been trying out drummers for 3 months now with NO luck at all, the ones that we have found have either been just plain CRAZY and stalk ya to death or they have other issues such as drugs or alcohol... seriously it could be worse....

[rtslinger]

Okay I would suggest you get a back up drummer to learn your set list so, if your drummer doesn't improve after your chat, You will need to have a plan B in your back pocket. Good luck.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by rtslinger

Okay I would suggest you get a back up drummer to learn your set list

I think the OP said he already has.

[eSmith]

I'd get rid of this guy only as long as you're willing to be replaced by a better bassist for the good of the band when one comes along.

This.

If you get rid of the drummer, who is the next weakest link? Someone will always be the weakest link, where do you draw the line. Who gets to be the worst in the band yet the first to keep the gig?

Like sports teams, putting all the best players on one team simply does not get you the trophy every time.

-eSmith.

[tooloudalex]

The real question is, is this a band formed from CL adds, or are you tight friends with the members?

If its the latter, is the band worth your friendship?

[easyvision]

I don't think I made a few things as clear as they could have been, for that I apologise.

The drummer's just not showing any drive or passion into improving his playing. He has the means to practise at home and with his work pattern, he has the time too. He just doesn't, and it shows. He can't hold a steady beat, can't hold time well at all and misses out on a lot of accents and subtle things that we point out to him very clearly to try out. He doesn't contribute anything to any songs, the most input I recall him having was saying one of our songs had to be simplified because it was too complicated. Said song had 3 parts to it.

He has gigged with us and to be honest, wasn't quite up to scratch.

There's a difference between having a weak link that's holding the band back, and having a weak link that's willing, able and prepared to improve. He's the former, for sure.

I was recruited to the band through CL, the singer and guitarist have been jamming for years and are really tight. The drummer came into the picture a few months before I did. He was a friend of a coworker of the guitarists.

Tomorrow's our next jam. Just got to see how that goes, see if he's taken anythin we said into account and put any effort into practising.

Thanks for the replies brothers. You've given me a lot to think about.

[tooloudalex]

Originally Posted by tooloudalex

The real question is, is this a band formed from CL adds, or are you tight friends with the members?

If its the latter, is the band worth your friendship?

Well in that case, its the former, thus



GIVE EM THE BOOT!