New band and recording costs

MichaelScott · #1 01-07-2010, 11:52 AM

So I've been working with this band for a few weeks (two practices). I dig their music and the peeps in the bad seem pretty nice. I haven't officially "joined" the band yet.

Last night the lead guitarist mentioned that they were going to be doing some recordings for an EP next month. I'm not hesitant to help them lay down tracks but I am hesitant to get involved in paying for the endeavor with the limited time I've spent with these guys. This is an original band in Los Angeles so there is no way we'll ever make any money with it. They haven't asked me to pay for anything yet but I am guessing they will.

Also, these guys have some decent home recordings that they did with garageband. Obviously not pro grade stuff but if they just want to give out CD's at shows then it is totally fine. They have only played 2 gigs so far so I'm wishing they spent more time playing live instead of worrying about recording an EP.

What do you all think?

Vakmere · #2 01-08-2010, 12:25 PM

No pay, no play.

addylewis · #3 01-08-2010, 12:56 PM

See if they do ask you to pay - if so tell them you're not doing it without being an official member...but be tactful, DON'T just ask them next time you see them - see if they offer you the position first, if not and they don't ask for any money I'd be tempted to ask for some myself unless its cleared up in terms of "membership" as it were...

MichaelScott · #4 01-08-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vakmere

No pay, no play.

Unfortunately, that just isn't the scene in Los Angeles. If you want to be in an original's band you are either playing for free or paying to play.

Stumbo · #5 01-08-2010, 07:20 PM

I suggest you be pro-active about the deal and bring up your thoughts on the subject.

Hey, they may want you just to share the costs. Then what? They can let you go anytime. What happened to the original bass player?

Seems to me that they should have discussed the recording deal with you before you joined. IME, it's not really ethical to drop such a big deal on you after you've only been with them for two rehearsals, especially if they want you to pay an equal share. I mean, how long have they been planning the recordings? I'd guess, p1robably before you joined.

addylewis · #6 01-09-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumbo

Hey, they may want you just to share the costs. Then what? They can let you go anytime. What happened to the original bass player?

I never thought of this but you're right - I got bitten by a band a while ago...went into the studio, no probs as I'd been in the band for ages - paid a weeks wages toward it, got sacked 3 days later!

MichaelScott · #7 01-09-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumbo

Hey, they may want you just to share the costs. Then what? They can let you go anytime. What happened to the original bass player?

They are a new band. I'd be their first bass player. The guitars played bass on some of the recording they did so far and on the two shows they did the rhythm guitarist played bass.

Quote:

Seems to me that they should have discussed the recording deal with you before you joined. IME, it's not really ethical to drop such a big deal on you after you've only been with them for two rehearsals, especially if they want you to pay an equal share. I mean, how long have they been planning the recordings? I'd guess, p1robably before you joined.

Well I haven't joined yet. It's nice to know others seem hesitant too. I'm going to bring it up next time we meet.

nothumb · #8 01-09-2010, 11:50 AM

in my experience, if you're playing in an originals band and you've only been together a couple shows, DON'T spend a bunch of money on an EP. you're going to learn a lot in the next few months about what you actually want to sound like and whether it will work out. you're also going to (hopefully) refine your arrangements and evolve. i think you'll be much more productive doing your own demos for free, and it will get you used to working on the recording process together so when you actually pay to go in a studio you're more prepared and have more of a sense of what you ultimately want.

fdeck · #9 01-09-2010, 11:52 AM

In a pay-to-play environment, "non-membership has its privileges." Here's my advice. You know the band has already agreed amongst themselves that they are willing to pay their own money for the pleasure of recording in the studio and having an album. Paying the bassist for the session would be a minor additional cost for them. Let them know that you will record with the band for 25 bucks an hour (or whatever, you decide), and they will enjoy exclusive rights to any profits made from the album.

Of course you will be the only member of the band who profits from this arrangement. Effectively you will be on the receiving end of pay-to-play. The rest of the band members will receive boxes of CD's to store under their beds until the band breaks up.

If you are asked to pay, then it's a simple matter to decide if this is what you want to spend your money on, versus buying a new bass, making a couple of car payments, or whatever. But if you do pay into their recording budget, then insist on having a say over the amount that gets spent. If you don't have that say, then you aren't an equal member of the band.

Decedo · #10 01-09-2010, 11:58 AM

A new band: I'd not worry about recording. Gig, gig and gig some more, and record on 'home-studio' stuff. If it is a 'new' band, then the sound will change as you all play together and get the material tight.
I recently joined a new band that were starting the EP recording process. Since I didn't have a say (at first) I just went with it. They picked up all the recording costs because they couldn't ask me to pay since I had no input on the writing and hadn't officially joined. They finished recording and low and behold the sound was better after I 'officially' joined, and got tight with the band after reheasals and gigs. The CD they paid for and cut didn't really represent the bands sound anymore, so it was kind of a waste.

IntrepidCellist · #11 01-09-2010, 12:06 PM

Definitely what nothumb says. My band recorded an EP at home after being together for two months. We then went back and rerecorded almost everything (and some new songs besides) after playing together for eight months. Huge improvement in arrangements, sound, and tightness.

MichaelScott · #12 01-10-2010, 01:42 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys. Everyone seems to be on the same wave length as my gut was telling me. I'll let you know how it goes.

wetzelman1 · #13 01-12-2010, 09:41 AM

my opinion nowadays is that paying for studio time really isn't worth it unless your already signed to a label. You can get more than acceptable recordings done at your house and then just fork out $25 / track to have em mastered by someone online. Easy Cheesy.

my band does all of our own recordings and have better demo tracks than half of the bands we play with have with their "paid for" demo's.

singlemalt · #14 01-12-2010, 11:17 AM

Until you wring every last bit of studio out of your desktop, why spend the money on a pro session?

You guys could be improving your home set up and finding "your sound" for the same money. I've heard lots of "pro" demos and EP's that where not as good as they should have been.

Keep the red light on all the time and capture everything that happens good or bad.

Chuck King · #15 01-12-2010, 03:23 PM

Almost all originals bands are the artistic vision of one person, rarely two people, but almost never the whole band, and in this case, it doesn't sound like it's your artistic vision.

Since as you point out, there's no money in playing originals initially and very rarely any ever, the artistic visionary of the band will generally allow or even put forth the idea that the band is some sort of all-for-one-and-one-for-all unit, letting the other players necessary to the realization of his/her vision feel that they have some sort of ownership of what's going on. Often this extends to a certain amount of latitude when it comes to arrangements. But, when push comes to shove, the vision remains one person's, and if the other players want to stay in the band they need to fit their playing to that vision.

So when it comes to being asked to put money into a band, look at it from that perspective. The only way I would put more than a small amount into a band would be under the following circumstances:

(a) It's my band, put together to realize my own artistic vision.

(b) Somebody else's project but I really like it and want to get a good recording of it just for my own personal satisfaction.

(c) It's somebody else's band and vision but I think it's going to make money, and in exchange for my investment now I get a part of whatever comes down the road. And, that should be memorialized in some sort of written contract that ensures that the leader can't replace you and shut you out at his whim later if the thing does end up successful. Obviously, a piece of a low-budget demo CD is worth nothing; to engage in something like this you should have some sort of partnership arrangement that involves long-term obligations. I think you'll find that almost no band leader will sign an agreement like that, which tells you where you really stand.

At this point, it sounds like you need more information and experience with these guys to decide what level of commitment you are prepared to make, and probably to evaluate the project's realistic prospects. It's a little unfair of them, if they are expecting you to put up money to record right away. I like the idea above of telling them you won't put any money into this one but also agree not to share it any profit it makes. I also agree you'd be better off playing for a while before you spend money recording, but of course that may not be your decision to make.