New found respect for cover bands.

[lump]

Originally Posted by jonotronic

Being in a decent covers band requires a number of skills that a lot of players may not develop if they stick to original bands. Like ability to work stuff out/transcribe from ear to a deadline. If a track has an interesting bassline (bass or synth) i'll work it out note for note or as near as possible and this kind of exercise is good for your musicianship. Through doing this I have absorbed little nuances from a lot of great bass parts in a quantity that just wouldn't be required should I just play original stuff.
In my experience the players round these parts who purely play original material don't do so through some kind of noble artistic ideal - they lack the technique, ears and general musicianship required to learn a lot of different material convincingly enough to get paid! All the good players seem to do (or have at some point) some kind of cover work in addition to any original, whether it's pop or jazz/big band.

Nailed it.

IME, most of the hate for cover bands come from young guys who want to "make it big," but don't have the skills to cover other peoples' material. If all you do are originals, it's easier to overlook your own poor musicianship and blame the audience for not appreciating your "genius."

I'll take a working cover band that does the odd original over one that does strictly originals any day.

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

Great point! Yes, if your originals are not paying then you know they're not good. If they were good, instead of complaining that no one wants to pay for your songs, you would be overseeing the construction of your mansion on your private island!

Hmm. True, many original bands write crummy songs. HOWEVER, I could name MANY highly successful acts that, IMO, are absolutely horrible. Couldn't you? Bet you can. Can't name them because then the thread will be tagged as 'bashing' thread and be closed.
So why are these horrible acts successful? Promotion, promotion, promotion. Big companies sign them on and hit us over the head with them until we say "OK! I believe you! I'll buy the album and attend the concert and buy the T-shirt!" etc........
In all fairness, the GOOD acts require the same level of promotion.
So, my position is unless you can afford to promote your original act in a major way, or are connected to people who can and will(and I've been there- didn't work), AND you are really, really good, forget it, or just accept it for what is is and have a good time.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

No problem with that. I'm as laid back as they come, until I'm crossed. Then I respond. That's fair, ain't it?


If you notice, I RESPONDED to a thread initiated to address the crappiness of cover bands. I don't "crap all over" original band members who are not bashing cover musicians. In fact, I encourage original band members who are being civil.

This thread was fairly civil to begin with, and I admit I took a stronger postion than the OP deserved. But, I don't apologize for defending cover bands. The genre is unfairly criticized by SOME original "arteests" and this should be pointed out when it appears.

That's unfair to the OP. I think he could have stated it better, but he didn't say cover bands were crappy. He admitted he didn't like them before and said he respects the job those folks do now. I'm glad to hear you encourage original band members who are civil--but your blanket statement about original songs is in fact a disparagement of all of them, civil or not.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by jonotronic

Being in a decent covers band requires a number of skills that a lot of players may not develop if they stick to original bands. Like ability to work stuff out/transcribe from ear to a deadline. If a track has an interesting bassline (bass or synth) i'll work it out note for note or as near as possible and this kind of exercise is good for your musicianship. Through doing this I have absorbed little nuances from a lot of great bass parts in a quantity that just wouldn't be required should I just play original stuff.

I generally agree with this. I haven't been in a band that primarily plays covers, and I'm sure it would be a learning experience. BUT it is possible to stretch yourself as a musician by playing in an originals band that is stylistically diverse (they certainly exist), by mixing a few covers into the originals set (coming up with new interpretations or doing a song outside the band's typical style, that isn't all over the radio), and/or playing in multiple original bands in different genres.

Originally Posted by jonotronic

In my experience the players round these parts who purely play original material don't do so through some kind of noble artistic ideal - they lack the technique, ears and general musicianship required to learn a lot of different material convincingly enough to get paid!

You know this for a fact? I've seen many an original band with highly skilled players who weren't making it big for whatever reason (too adventurous musically to appeal to a broad audience, not enough time to go on tour or promote themselves, or--yes--bad songwriting), but they stuck with it because that's what they wanted to do. Of course, those people sometimes get mocked here for being "arteests" or "snobs".

[JimmyM]

Honestly, I really don't care what people think of me playing in a cover band. Nobody's looking for 48 year old rock stars, and I'm not interested in sleeping on floors and in cars and making no money in a useless effort to promote myself as an original artist. Besides, unless you have a buttload of money to spend on being a rock star, you're not going to get anywhere, anyway.

But it's nice to be respected once in a while.

[Boot Soul]

I guess I am in the category of players who enjoy playing covers, but only if they are somewhat obscure, forgotten gems. I'm talking about the kind of songs where people in the audience might say, "wow, I haven't heard this song forever!" or "wow, I used to love this song as a kid". I am in my 40's so the kind of songs I am referring to are generally the garage rock/R&B styled tunes from the mid 60's to the mid 70's, as well as more recent tunes that are derivative of that period and style. Examples that I have played in the past (not in a band now) include stuff like "No Reason" by the Cynics, "Rumble" and others by Link Wray, "All Women Are Bad" by The Cramps, "Strychnine" by the Sonics, "Love Comes in Spurts" by Richard Hell, "Theme from The Vindicators" by The Fleshtones, "Sugar Daddy" by Jackson 5, "NSU" by Cream (in a more upbeat style), "I Need You" by the Kinks, "Here I Am (Come and take Me)" by Al Green, and some more recent tunes such as "Uncontrollable Urge" by Devo, "Commando" by the Ramones, etc. etc. etc. Even when we covered the mainstream bands like The Beatles and Stones, we would play "Hey Bulldog" and "Helter Skelter" instead of "She Loves You"; and "Message from Turner" and "Live With Me" instead of "Honky Tonk Woman". These songs also gave us more latitude to embellish them in our own style, since nobody had heard the originals on the radio recently (unless they happen to listen to WFMU, like I do).

People who gave us compliments usually said some version of, "thanks for not playing the usual crap" or "that took me right back to High School/College/Juvenile Detention".

We always made sure at the end of our sets to tell the audience that all of our songs are covers and to ask us if they wanted to know the originators. I think our approach was just more fun for everyone in the audience, and the band.

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by GregC

That's unfair to the OP. I think he could have stated it better, but he didn't say cover bands were crappy. He admitted he didn't like them before and said he respects the job those folks do now. I'm glad to hear you encourage original band members who are civil--but your blanket statement about original songs is in fact a disparagement of all of them, civil or not.

I don't think I mischaracterized OP's post anymore than you did mine.

Listen, all I'm doing is sticking up for cover bands when they're "crapped on" (in your words). Nothing wrong with that, didn't draw first, not going to back down, and don't really care how that's received.

[jonotronic]

Originally Posted by GregC

You know this for a fact? I've seen many an original band with highly skilled players who weren't making it big for whatever reason (too adventurous musically to appeal to a broad audience, not enough time to go on tour or promote themselves, or--yes--bad songwriting), but they stuck with it because that's what they wanted to do. Of course, those people sometimes get mocked here for being "arteests" or "snobs".

I'll use a TLA (three letter acronym) and say IME all the good players I know have worked (ie been paid) playing other peoples music. Whether jazz, top 40, classical, Theatre, Big Band Folk/Country/Scottish - doesn't matter. There are a few renegades here and there that don't but they aren't really working musicians and I wont be calling them for a dep gig. Neither will anyone else I know. Good luck to them doing their own thing Players in good working cover bands are earning money for a reason, they have skills that are valuable. Hence the financial transaction involved. I'd welcome anyone else's comments on this

[MikeBass]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Honestly, I really don't care what people think of me playing in a cover band. Nobody's looking for 48 year old rock stars, and I'm not interested in sleeping on floors and in cars and making no money in a useless effort to promote myself as an original artist. Besides, unless you have a buttload of money to spend on being a rock star, you're not going to get anywhere, anyway.

But it's nice to be respected once in a while.

+1 here.
Please see my sig below.....

But if you have a buttload of money you can become Tal Wilkenfeld...... j/k Jimmy!

[Implosion]

One thing that always boggles me with these kind of threads is money. It's always mentioned as some sort of a measurement.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

...sleeping on floors and in cars and making no money in a useless effort to promote myself as an original...

Originally Posted by jonotronic

...Players in good working cover bands are earning money for a reason, they...

I honestly have to ask you that do you find playing originals without a chance of making big money to be an obscure idea? Because there are a lot of genres that have bands that tour both US & Europe and if they are lucky they might make only a little more money than break-even. Actually break-even after a big tour is considered some what of a success. You might ask why the hell do they do that and why have they chosen to play the kind of music that will never be played on air and therefore doesn't have any potential to be a commercial success? Well, I can tell you that it's not about money It's about doing something that you enjoy.

[QORC]

Originally Posted by coreyfyfe

I must say, until very recently I was never fond of cover bands. To be honest, I'm still not, but I certainly respect what all you guys and gals are doing a lot more these days.

A few weeks ago I was approached by a friend and fellow bass player, asking me if I would be interested in subbing while he was out with some back issues, potentially involving major surgery. The band is top 40s pop tunes, certainly not my scene in terms of music, but I had seen them play before, at both lackluster and packed gigs. Usually I stuck around for a set or two, and then packed it in before it was late or whenever I got bored.

I must say, there is a huge difference in sitting and watching a cover band, and having to actually generate the interest within your self to play these types of tunes and play them well. Listening to the songs (turn on any pop-radio and there is the set list) I got the impression that I could half-ass my way through the set no problem. Which is true. But I know myself better than that, and I know I'm not going to half-ass anything I do, so it's actually taken some serious effort to put the time into working on this material, and to try to ensure that I am doing everything possible to make these songs sound great.

And given that, I must say, that for anyone who goes out, night after night, weekend after weekend, playing music geared towards the 12-year-old market (although certainly not the lyrics), I salute you. Anyone who loves playing enough to play music you thoroughly dislike, and to play it well and be entertaining, is ok in my book.

you know, the title of the thread makes it sound like he DOES respect cover bands, but as you read it, it's actually a very long put down.

1. You can half-ass your way through covers
2. Music is for 12 year olds
3. He hates all music except his own (I guess)

really pathetic. Got a newsflash for ya:

1. You can 'half-ass' your way through originals too. Since you wrote it, no one knows how its supposed to sound anyway!
2. Most original music is neither good nor "original"
3. Most people don't care about your music and would rather hear a talented band do a variety of covers they know and do them well.
4. It takes a hell of a lot more talent to cover a variety of styles of music than to merely write your own, one-style tunes.


oh and while your band is playing in front of 30 people in some dive and you're getting paid $300 if you're lucky, I've got bookings in 4 States every weekend except one in the next 2 months, including a 3-nighter at a place we've played 5 other times and never had less than 1,000 people per night in front of us. Sneer if you want, but I'm part of a very tight, well-oiled rock machine, making good money, being constantly hit on by women half my age, being treated like a rock star and having the time of my life. This month we are the cover story in a local magazine. We just got a booking in New Orleans for one night, $5,000 plus all expenses.

I apologize for doing covers to no one.

Have a good day

[Implosion]

Originally Posted by QORC

you know, the title of the thread makes it sound like he DOES respect cover bands, but as you read it, it's actually a very long put down.

1. You can half-ass your way through covers
2. Music is for 12 year olds
3. He hates all music except his own (I guess)

really pathetic. Got a newsflash for ya:

1. You can 'half-ass' your way through originals too. Since you wrote it, no one knows how its supposed to sound anyway!
2. Most original music is neither good nor "original"
3. Most people don't care about your music and would rather hear a talented band do a variety of covers they know and do them well.
4. It takes a hell of a lot more talent to cover a variety of styles of music than to merely write your own, one-style tunes.


oh and while your band is playing in front of 30 people in some dive and you're getting paid $300 if you're lucky, I've got bookings in 4 States every weekend except one in the next 2 months, including a 3-nighter at a place we've played 5 other times and never had less than 1,000 people per night in front of us. Sneer if you want, but I'm part of a very tight, well-oiled rock machine, making good money, being constantly hit on by women half my age, being treated like a rock star and having the time of my life. This month we are the cover story in a local magazine. We just got a booking in New Orleans for one night, $5,000 plus all expenses.

I apologize for doing covers to no one.

Have a good day

And aren't we all grateful that the Young brothers decided to write originals instead of sticking to playing covers

[QORC]

actually AC/DC did a LOT of covers -- their first single was a cover -- "Baby Please Don't Go" and the lead track on their first album.

And yes, I'm very grateful to them. They are my favorite band and they wrote incredible stuff. Its why I do what I do -- it's a "tribute" to them.

Just because I cover their originals doesn't mean that 99.999999999999% of the "original" music out there now isn't complete rubbish, does it? There is good stuff out there. I really admire some groups. But most original stuff is just retread crap. There isn't much going on that's actually "original" is there?

What does it say about current "original" music that our band doing covers of songs mostly written 25-30 years ago is far more popular than anything else going on out here right now? We're just giving the people what they want instead of being self-deluded into believing that merely because we write something means it's "valid."

I'm just having fun and making money. Sneer all you want.

[thumpbass1]

Originally Posted by standupright

yeah. i can see your point. playing blues covers certainly sucks in my book.

If you can't make a blues cover your own, then you ain't doing it right.

[Thor]

Closed per request.