The Next Time I'm in a Band...

[Haysoochreesto]

I had to leave my band due to bigger responsibilities. This weekend is my last gig. I'll miss it... I already do but anyway.

The next time I'm in a band it's not going to be one of these democracy things. I will either play with a band that has a leader or a couple of leaders who decide the direction, pick the songs, etc., or me and another guy will be the leaders who do those things.

My replacement has already been practicing with the band and I've been to just a couple of practices over the last 6 weeks or so. Man, what a clusterF. I didn't realize how disorganized the thing was until I was out of the forest. I never thought it was bad and I enjoyed being in the thing but man, each guy is still fighting to play his songs and the setlist for this weekend is still up in the air for them.

All the guys have learned the songs they wanted to play but none have learned all. They already have enough to do 6+ sets but they're still jockeying for their favorite. Lame.

And this happens because there isn't one or two designated guys who run the show.

Not that anyone pays attention to my posts, but in the past I was a vehement supporter of the band-democracy system. I've seen the light and no mas.

Also: song endings. Am I the only guy on the planet who realizes that crowds just don't care for fancy endings to cover songs?

"Let's end like this; we'll do this and then that and then we'll throw in a quick medley for ...".

No. End it like this, 1,2,3,4, 1! Or something equally simple. End them all the same way, no one will notice. Screwing around with endings takes up so much time. It always bugged me to death. Musicians are the only ones who notice that kind of stuff and they're not the ones you're supposed to be playing to anyway.

But really, the major thrust of this thread is about band leadership. I have to admit that 4 or 5 guys trying to make decisions is a recipe for confusion and disharmony.

[JohnMCA72]

It's pretty hard to find 4-5 people who can agree on anything. It can be done, but I wouldn't count on it.

One caveat: If you're in a band that does have a definite leader, make sure you have all split arrangements nailed down up front! Especially where money is involved. It can be a mistake to assume that everything is going to be split equally, in a band that is structured unequally.

[Raymeous]

It can work but there's some planning involved.

For example if you are trying to put your set list together for a cover band each person brings three tunes to the table. You present your three tunes, then you guys work as a band to pick one of the songs to cover. Once you guys figure which song to do out of the ones you suggested, you move on to the next band member who will present the band with A B or C. Lather, rinse, repeat. Oh and make sure you have the songs on your iPod or something so that you guys can listen to each of them as needed.

This will get you a half dozen songs relatively quickly and hopefully painlessly as there will be at least one song you love in the set. The following weekend add the next batch and so on. Of course this is not 100% effective as somebody will have a snit about something, but it is a start at keeping the peace and letting everybody get involved with the bands direction.

Other than that the "Band Leader" gets to dictate the songs, you get no say, and its not a band. You are simply a hired gun. Key word here is "hired". Just sayin'

[Haysoochreesto]

Originally Posted by Raymeous

It can work but there's some planning involved.

For example if you are trying to put your set list together for a cover band each person brings three tunes to the table. You present your three tunes, then you guys work as a band to pick one of the songs to cover. Once you guys figure which song to do out of the ones you suggested, you move on to the next band member who will present the band with A B or C. Lather, rinse, repeat. Oh and make sure you have the songs on your iPod or something so that you guys can listen to each of them as needed.

This will get you a half dozen songs relatively quickly and hopefully painlessly as there will be at least one song you love in the set. The following weekend add the next batch and so on. Of course this is not 100% effective as somebody will have a snit about something, but it is a start at keeping the peace and letting everybody get involved with the bands direction.

Other than that the "Band Leader" gets to dictate the songs, you get no say, and its not a band. You are simply a hired gun. Key word here is "hired". Just sayin'

We did all those things and it still turned into kind of a mess. We did get a lot of stuff done but there was so much stuff that you'd spend the time to get down, only to end up never doing it.

Also, even though I'm leaving, the direction that the band is going in isn't a good one. It started off with all of us having basically the same idea about what a successful cover band should be and now it's morphed into a self indulgent situation where 3/5 of the bandmembers are wanting to learn songs that they like, but have relatively little appeal to a wide audience. I've seen it during the last few gigs. People just aren't getting up to dance and have a good time because the song selection and setlist setup is wrongheaded.

And that's why the next project I'm in will have to be fun first and foremost, but also insightful to what an audience enjoys from a cover band. Obviously I think I have better taste than 3/4 of the band I'm leaving but audience reaction bears that out.

I don't care if I like a song or not. The first thing I envision is the opening riff to the song in question being played at a given venue; and then if I can foresee a decent number of people getting off their seat and coming onto the dance floor, then that's the song I pick. I want to play with similarly thinking people.

I'll say this: every song I've ever picked is still in every setlist we've ever done. The other guys? Not so much.

[klokker]

Each group of people is different. In one situation a more free-flowing group decision kind of band WILL work.......with another group it won't.

The point is that I wouldn't say that I would never again be in a band with a more democratic approach.

[LiamPodmore]

My main band is a democracy, probably with me having the smallest part in the decisions, but i dont mind it that way. I have my 2nd band where me and the vocalist lead it and decide on sonds that we can all play, so i get my turn.

Liam

[agreatheight]

OP, I am with you on this.

I have been doing the cover band thing for a while now, and a couple of things have become clear to me. 1) Democracy is great until it stops being a conversation and becomes a shouting match. And it very often does. 2) People are selfish. The last cover band I auditioned for wanted "lots of chicks dancing" (their words, not mine) yet inexplicably had Iron Maiden and Metallica on the set list. I was like O Rly? ***? People have a real hard time seeing past themselves and their wants. The dudes were closets metal heads, pure and simple. That is not a bad thing, but metal doesn't generally get girls dancing. 3) I prefer it when a band's direction is clear.

I have decided that I am going to start my next cover band with these exact things in mind. It will hopefully be what I like to call a dictatorial democracy - everyone will have a say, but when it looses focus / gets out of control someone (likely me) will make decisions without push back. Also, band direction comes first, so a 60 song setlist will be in place before auditions. There will be room for additions and removals of course, but not until the core 60 is ready to roll. If people want more input they can join a different cover band!

[DB10]

I'm in a 3 piece cover band. Kind of an informal democracy, with unequal voting rights. Essentially our guitarist/vocalist gets two votes, since he's the one who has to sing the songs. But if the drummer and I both hate a song, it is out. Works pretty well most of the time. Helps that we were friends before bandmates, so maintaining that is still our priority. And we're mostly doing it as fun/hobby, which reduces the pressure a bit.

[Lemoore-on]

Originally Posted by klokker

Each group of people is different. In one situation a more free-flowing group decision kind of band WILL work.......with another group it won't.

The point is that I wouldn't say that I would never again be in a band with a more democratic approach.

I like this.

Our band is on the same page, we watch the crowds reaction to new song and keep or drop songs based on that. We have dropped songs that any one of us might love to play or kept songs that we hate. A democracy band can work if you are all headed in the same direction and all willing to compromise and keep our egos in check. We are a 4pc cover band s/g/b/d. If a member is not on the same page then he/she has got to go.

Dont get me wrong, there are some debates, sometimes quite animated but in the end the gigs are steady because our goal is to keep the crowd happy.

I personally wont be a perminant member in a band if I have NO say in anything. I'll sub in one as thats a different story.

[Haysoochreesto]

Originally Posted by agreatheight

OP, I am with you on this.

I have been doing the cover band thing for a while now, and a couple of things have become clear to me. 1) Democracy is great until it stops being a conversation and becomes a shouting match. And it very often does. 2) People are selfish. The last cover band I auditioned for wanted "lots of chicks dancing" (their words, not mine) yet inexplicably had Iron Maiden and Metallica on the set list. I was like O Rly? ***? People have a real hard time seeing past themselves and their wants. The dudes were closets metal heads, pure and simple. That is not a bad thing, but metal doesn't generally get girls dancing. 3) I prefer it when a band's direction is clear.

I have decided that I am going to start my next cover band with these exact things in mind. It will hopefully be what I like to call a dictatorial democracy - everyone will have a say, but when it looses focus / gets out of control someone (likely me) will make decisions without push back. Also, band direction comes first, so a 60 song setlist will be in place before auditions. There will be room for additions and removals of course, but not until the core 60 is ready to roll. If people want more input they can join a different cover band!

Wow. It sounds like we're the same person dealing with the same people. My bandmembers are also metalheads and we've ended up doing Iron Maiden, Scorpions, and some Priest as well as some other too heavy for the dance floor type stuff.

I'm a metalhead at heart too but I dont project that onto the audience. Sure I'd love to be up there playing Phantom of the Opera but I don't want people leaving the venue as if someone loosed half a dozen skunks onto the dance floor.

[tycobb73]

When a new member of my band asked about song choice and leadership I sent out this email to everybody. Since then he's come up with some great suggestions.

---------------------------

Well, its a dictatorship. But its one of those dictatorships where I want everyone to stay with the project so I take everybody's input and try to incorporate it as much as I can. What I sent you last time was just to make sure you had this week's songs so you could get started. Here is an updated list incorporating some of your ideas. Putting together a song list is like a puzzle. You have to make sure everyone is represented, the songs are popular, you have songs that both your singers can sing but not too taxing on one of your singers, can the guitarist handle the leads, every genre is represented, etc. When I look at songs I also look at where they will go in the setlist. I like some of the 80s suggestions as I was looking for more 80s to do and can't wait to do Harvey Danger. We'll probably be doing it in a couple practices. The only thing I'm unsure of is which one of you 2 suggested the ones I picked. It could be that I got a bunch from Martin and none from Dan or vice versa.

But the biggest thing is to pick songs that the majority of people know. If it wasn't a hit single then it probably won't work for a coverband. My tastes are the most extreme of everyone in the band. Not one of my favorite songs will go over in a bar, that's just the way it is. Remember what I said, you're going to do 10 that you like, 10 that you hate, and 20 you're indifferent about.

[Marko5657]

Like any successful business venture really needs to have a mission statement, when a band forms, some ground rules need to be expressed and agreed upon, or it’s going to become a complete cluster****!

We set a ground rule to picking songs for the covers band.

*Has to be well-known, recognizable to the audience.

*Has to be a dance song, fast or slow, but no listening music no matter how much someone likes it…

…This ain’t karaoke, and if I have to endure this crap (yeah, I’m not a stage-type guy by nature), I want a formula that’s gonna at least work, get better rooms and make me a few bucks.

(I personally LOVE many songs that I have to reject because it doesn’t fit the rule.)

Still have to occasionally deal with someone suggesting a song tht doesn’t fit, but so far, have managed to not have any real problems.

As for the “leader” thing, I half-half about that.

I personally do NOT want to be the leader, and I'm happy that someone is willing and able to do it, but I want to have enough power that I can step in and veto something if I feel the need. I happen to be in such a position, and have yet to actually veto something, but seems after the few times I’ve expressed my opposition to something, the issue kinda goes away.

[Bass Viking]

Originally Posted by Haysoochreesto

Also: song endings. Am I the only guy on the planet who realizes that crowds just don't care for fancy endings to cover songs?

"Let's end like this; we'll do this and then that and then we'll throw in a quick medley for ...".

No. End it like this, 1,2,3,4, 1! Or something equally simple. End them all the same way, no one will notice. Screwing around with endings takes up so much time. It always bugged me to death. Musicians are the only ones who notice that kind of stuff and they're not the ones you're supposed to be playing to anyway.

+1 I hate inefficient use of time.

Originally Posted by Haysoochreesto

It started off with all of us having basically the same idea about what a successful cover band should be and now it's morphed into a self indulgent situation where 3/5 of the bandmembers are wanting to learn songs that they like, but have relatively little appeal to a wide audience. I've seen it during the last few gigs. People just aren't getting up to dance and have a good time because the song selection and setlist setup is wrongheaded.


I don't care if I like a song or not. The first thing I envision is the opening riff to the song in question being played at a given venue; and then if I can foresee a decent number of people getting off their seat and coming onto the dance floor, then that's the song I pick. I want to play with similarly thinking people.

Originally Posted by agreatheight

The last cover band I auditioned for wanted "lots of chicks dancing" (their words, not mine) yet inexplicably had Iron Maiden and Metallica on the set list. I was like O Rly? ***? People have a real hard time seeing past themselves and their wants.

I hear you guys loud and clear and understand your frustration. Playing in a working cover band is a bit like being a cook in a restaurant: you may not like every dish you have to prepare but if it's a crowd pleaser it should be on the menu.

Having said that, I would like to see a bit more variety in the repertoire that many cover bands do. "Smoke on the Water" may be a crowd pleaser but would it hurt to do a less-played-to-death but equally danceable tune by Deep Purple, like "Strange Kind of Woman" for example?

[spencerbassman]

Hey Guys

My former cover band was a three piece: a guitarist and singer, a drummer, and myself on bass. I can't stress enough that the songs you do in a cover band must conform with the members tastes, abilities, and of course the type of band you are. Our band was unable to play many songs that we loved, for example playing AC/DC songs were almost impossible, due to lack of instruments and member skill (if you've ever tried, you would know its pretty hard for most people to sing an AC/DC song) however, there were a few we could play, due to a choice of songs that would actually fit the band (something else I would stress, pick songs that are right for the band as a collective, not individual. If you willingly don't consider everyone in the band, that's just selfish.)

Also, as it has been said before, the band must also have a clear view of what they want to play as a collective. For us it was of course good Rock and Roll. As a band you have to be united in what you want to play, for example, we were very happy to play many good songs that we liked due to all of us liking them, not just one of us. If your in a band with a particular person or people who may not be enthusiastic about what your playing, you have to ask is there a point of them being in the band? The answer is simply no. Its a harsh truth sometimes, especially if some of the members may be friends outside of the band, but There is no point in trying to force that member to conform with the rest of the band, it only creates more hassle then it's worth.

However if your prepared (and I believe this is a true sign of a good band mate) you can meet halfway. For this to work there must be 100% respect and willingness to do so, and if this is not present then it won't work, and I would simply advise find another band that will.

My former cover band was successful due to a respect for each other and what we liked individually, we met halfway on whichever decisions may not have been clear, and in the long run allowed the band to flourish due to it. Direct leadership only gets so far, but the band must willingly conform, not forced to be bent to decisions.

I hope this is helpful advice to anyone
Cheers
Spencerbassman

[Unrepresented]

Democracies work well if:

a) everyone's on the same page

b) everyone's capable of acting maturely

c) my Jedi mind powers are in full effect.