No Pay Benefits Shows

bluewine · #1 08-03-2011, 11:06 AM

Hi, I am hoping some of you pros can enlighten me on the perils of no pay benefit shows.

Last night I received the details.

10 Bands agreed to play

No Pay

They will be charging 10.00 at the gate

Band has 10 mlns to set up,if you take longer they take time off the 45 mlnute slot.

No outside food or drink on the grounds

Band members have to buy their own food.

I have made it clear to the BL that I am not playing the show

What do you guys think?

catyak · #2 08-03-2011, 11:11 AM

Is it benefitting an organization or charity that you want to support? If so, the band could donate their apperance for the write-off.

deltadave · #3 08-03-2011, 11:13 AM

Just curious and not a pro by any means, but how does the rest of the band feel about it?

onosson · #4 08-03-2011, 11:15 AM

The biggest peril, is that you will be asked to play a similar show again in the future.

As musicians, we are often only worth as much as we are willing to demand to be paid for our time.

Dusk · #5 08-03-2011, 11:16 AM

not getting paid is one thing...not getting paid and getting a bunch of red tape and BS is another...

onosson · #6 08-03-2011, 11:16 AM

And, I should add, I probably would not play that show myself, or I would find another *paying* gig that would make me "unavailable".

fenderhutz · #7 08-03-2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluewine

I have made it clear to the BL that I am not playing the show

What do you guys think?

You have no worries then.

guy n. cognito · #8 08-03-2011, 11:18 AM

Will the food vendors be providing their services for free? Will the guy that provides the port-a-potties be providing his services for free? Will the guy providing the stage / lighting / tents be providing his services for free? You get the idea......why is it that the bands always seem to be the only ones willing to work for free for these charities?

You might be able to justify it to yourself if you really believe in the charity, but my answer to these types of gigs is usually no.

Dusk · #9 08-03-2011, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onosson

The biggest peril, is that you will be asked to play a similar show again in the future.

As musicians, we are often only worth as much as we are willing to demand to be paid for our time.

This is true... unfortunately where i am from its almost EXPECTED of you to play for free...

Trying to get paid is like asking the venue owner for a kidney...

imho its up to us muso's to set the standard, a free show is fine and even charity is great... but we cant let venues get into the habit of expecting bands to play for free... its a big problem over here, sometimes my fuel costs to get to the venue arent even covered (>_<)

DRafalske · #10 08-03-2011, 11:21 AM

My band actually does a couple of these a year. Typically (for us), they're motorcycle events where admission to ride goes to a charity, then there's an after party with live music and food/drink vendors donate a portion of their sales as well.
They're a lot of fun.
Usually it's us plus one or (rarely) two other bands.
We donate our time but ask for free food/drink.

D

JTE · #11 08-03-2011, 11:22 AM

Benefits can be very cool, or horribly painful. For ME, it depends first of all on the "cause". A show to raise money to help with medical expenses of a long-term smoker who's got lung cancer (true story benefit request)? No way. To help raise money for Cystic Fibrosis research? I'm there (having a friend with CF is part of it).

Second, the organization of the show. I LOVE the time requirement- if you want to waste time with set-up/tear-down/"Sound-check", go ahead, but don't put all the other bands off schedule while you play around with being a rock star. So, that's a good start as far as I'm concerned.

Then, how is the promotion? While I'm doing the gig to support a cause I believe in, there's also no point in doing it if there's not going to be enough people (other than current supporters of the cause and/or friends of the bands) to make it worthwhile. It's an opportunity for education, and frankly a bit of publicity for the band too. So, it's gotta be well promoted too.

I've vetoed some benefits that were brought to the bands I've been in, and I've helped promote some too. It depends on these factors. I won't dismiss one out-of-hand, but I'm not going to support something I have real problems with either.

John

Tampabass · #12 08-03-2011, 11:24 AM

I'll play these, if it's a cause that I believe in.
But at the "good" benefits, the promoter/organizer and club strive to make sure the musician volunteers are treated right. Typically, they'll express it by having a no-hassle backline, cutting out the set-up BS, and providing drink and/or food tickets to the musicians.
Too often, these "benefits" turn into cash cows for the venues with little thought given to treating the musicians right.
As guy n. cognito said, "why is it that the bands always seem to be the only ones willing to work for free for these charities? "

bluewine · #13 08-03-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Will the food vendors be providing their services for free? Will the guy that provides the port-a-potties be providing his services for free? Will the guy providing the stage / lighting / tents be providing his services for free? You get the idea......why is it that the bands always seem to be the only ones willing to work for free for these charities?

You might be able to justify it to yourself if you really believe in the charity, but my answer to these types of gigs is usually no.

+1

Hoffman6000 · #14 08-03-2011, 11:26 AM

Benefit shows are always worth it if you are a BAND, regardless of the red tape. If you are a group of musicians getting together to Jam some tunes, then its good for the Cause, and good for your soul, but doesn't really benefit you besides a tax write off of whatever you would have charged for a fee (take the MAXIMUM amount you're worth).

BUT, as a BAND, you gain fans by playing in front of an audience who is passionate about something (they did pay $10!) and thinks that since you are there, by association, you are passionate about it too. This bond leads to selling more merch, pushing people to your website, inviting people to future gigs, booking more gigs that aren't charity, etc...

Just a tip though, learn something about the charity, and the people hosting the benifit... do your homework, it will pay off.

collins81 · #15 08-03-2011, 11:28 AM

The event organizers are not willing to take care of the bands? I am willing to donate my time for a notable charity; however they have all taken care of the talent donating their time. If they are unwilling to comp you food, drink and entrance, then I would rethink your availability.
The 10 bands that have agreed to play the event are in essence donating your services to the charity. Are they treating all their volunteers the same way?

JTE · #16 08-03-2011, 11:30 AM

Regarding whether other people involved with the benefit get paid or not- my experience with NFP's is that a lot of stuff is donated as a "gift in kind". Now when the folks I work with do sound for the American Cancer Society Relay For Life, we get paid but the bands work for free. First, the sound gig is about 30 hours straight-through. We get there at 7:00 AM to set up and that includes putting speakers on roofs, setting up three or four full blown outdoor PA stacks. Then I run sound, set up mics, etc. for everything that hits the stage from 11:00 AM Friday until about noon on Saturday, with about two hours to sleep in the van when the Karoke crew runs the show at 2:00 AM. Then we tear it all down and load it up. What we get paid for that is pretty lame, even less than I'd make gigging at the low-ball places in the area.

The bands show up, load in their back-line and drums, get to play for about 90 minutes and go home. But if it's a real issue, you can ask for them to cover expenses, like travel, equipment rental, etc. But you (the band as a whole) gotta decide your policy with benefits BEFORE anyone accepts them.

John

guy n. cognito · #17 08-03-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoffman6000

Benefit shows are always worth it if you are a BAND, regardless of the red tape. If you are a group of musicians getting together to Jam some tunes, then its good for the Cause, and good for your soul, but doesn't really benefit you besides a tax write off of whatever you would have charged for a fee (take the MAXIMUM amount you're worth).

BUT, as a BAND, you gain fans by playing in front of an audience who is passionate about something (they did pay $10!) and thinks that since you are there, by association, you are passionate about it too. This bond leads to selling more merch, pushing people to your website, inviting people to future gigs, booking more gigs that aren't charity, etc...

Just a tip though, learn something about the charity, and the people hosting the benifit... do your homework, it will pay off.

With all due respect, this is the type of illogic that promoters feed to bands to get them to play for free all the time. In reality, most attendees don't have a clue who's on stage, don't care, and certainly don't form a "bond" with the band simply because of their presence at the event. With 10 bands playing at the OPs event, it would seem to be a lot of work for very little stage time and "bonding" with the crowd.

Waffles and Scotch · #18 08-03-2011, 11:37 AM

Depending on the charity, I'd do it. Our first show back in October was benefitting the Susan G. Komen For The Cure foundation and it was a blast. Our drummer is recovering from cancer, so it was also something we felt deeply about. Very rewarding and good exposure for an original band just starting out. YMMV.

Hoffman6000 · #19 08-03-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

With all due respect, this is the type of illogic that promoters feed to bands to get them to play for free all the time. In reality, most attendees don't have a clue who's on stage, don't care, and certainly don't form a "bond" with the band simply because of their presence at the event. With 10 bands playing at the OPs event, it would seem to be a lot of work for very little stage time and "bonding" with the crowd.

Charity is doing things for others without expecting anything in return.
Charity events are never an immediate return on investment of time.
I've had a lot of luck with these kinds of gigs. I guess it depends on ones position within the band. If you are the leader of the hired-gun band it benefits the BL, but not the players. If the OP is a hired gun, then NO, don't take the gig unless you believe in the cause. But as a band (definition being a group of musicians all equally involved in a project) it can be beneficial.

Pilgrim · #20 08-03-2011, 11:40 AM

We play some benefits, but 10 minutes for setup is not acceptable.

IMO:

1) All band members need to agree
2) The terms and the timing have to be acceptable

I don't think the OP indicated that either of these conditions were met.