No Space for Basslines

[BassPlayingCat]

I love to write interesting bass parts but whatever I come out with gets pretty much shot down as it is 'too busy'. It seems like some of the band members treat the bass as a filling instrument and don't think about it's full potential. We are a production-heavy band so we have cellos and sub-bass etc on recordings and backing tracks so I might as well not even turn up if I'm just playing the same as what's on the tracks.

I don't just go crazy with random notes, I think very carefully and pick every hit for a purpose, but all they want is root notes! It's so frustrating!

Have any of you had this experience before/know what to do?

Thanks,
Chris

[Von Felgenhauer]

I used to play with people trying to tell me all I should play are quater note root notes. Key word used to. Unless they wrote every single part of the song and have a specific part they want you to play( at that point you are just a contract musician) then the baseline should be primarily what you think it should be. Now take in suggestions from band mates but don't let them force you to play what you don't want to. It sucks to say and think but if they wont let you play what you think you should maybe start looking for another group of guys. Just be up front with them and tell them you want more control of your basslines and that's that.

[kevteop]

I would look for a different gig - not all bands are like that.

[masterFlash]

In a big ensemble the music has to come first. So even if the bass part you wrote is really interesting, it might be too much with all that other instrumentation. I've always loved the bass because of the undercurrents and counterpoints we can provide. Often the melody makers of our groups don't get it. But we do have to be careful not to muddy up the sound too much. Maybe try not playing during sections, that way when your bass comes in it'll stand out and be HUGE. Those are usually good places to enter with a driving passage as well. Also if your part is really good for the song, tell them to pull back the other instrumentation for a few measures. Everyone doesn't have to play all the time.

[NineSpine]

I just think the idea should be out there that maybe your lines ARE too busy or maybe they are just busy in a way that simply doesn't sound good. It's always important in situations like this to take a hard look at yourself and make extra-sure that the criticism you are complaining about isn't actually correct.

I've noticed a very prominent trend, on this board more than anywhere, of bassists having a serious oppression complex. In my real life experience, most musicians who constantly complain that people are holding them back or don't get them... well they just aren't very good and can't accept it, or they are actually good and they have an ego that is really cramping their ability to access that talent.

On this messageboard, I can only go by what I've seen in real life. It's perfectly likely that you are in the right and your band isn't. We on the board can't exactly know what goes on in the studio for you. So, all I'm saying is to take a hard look and make sure the problem really lies in the rest of the band. If you can honestly say it does, then I'm sure there will be fifty other people replying to this giving you perfectly sound advice.

[Never_grew_up]

Originally Posted by kevteop

I would look for a different gig - not all bands are like that.

+1 on this. 2 weeks ago during a rehearsal the guitarist & I got into an argument over me playing a B note in a walking line when he was playing a G chord. He told me it was 'wrong' and actually had to look at the guitar chord poster he has on the wall to see that it would fit! I told him (as I started to unplug my bass and pack it away) that if all you want is someone to bounce on the root note of the chord with the beat than get a midi sequencer and save my pay. He shut up.

[Never_grew_up]

"...We are a production-heavy band so we have cellos and sub-bass etc on recordings and backing tracks so I might as well not even turn up if I'm just playing the same as what's on the tracks..."
Do you have any input on what the cello & sub-bass parts are in the backing tracks/recordings? I would put the root note thump in there somewhere so you have more freedom to play without having to hold up the low end beat.
If you don't have any input to that then that's another problem because you have other people controlling what happens in your section of the musical spectrum.

[IncX]

Originally Posted by BassPlayingCat

I love to write interesting bass parts but whatever I come out with gets pretty much shot down as it is 'too busy'. It seems like some of the band members treat the bass as a filling instrument and don't think about it's full potential. We are a production-heavy band so we have cellos and sub-bass etc on recordings and backing tracks so I might as well not even turn up if I'm just playing the same as what's on the tracks.

I don't just go crazy with random notes, I think very carefully and pick every hit for a purpose, but all they want is root notes! It's so frustrating!

Have any of you had this experience before/know what to do?

Thanks,
Chris

yes, i have had this experience... and it used to annoy me, but in retrospect, they were right - i was overplaying.

i guess it depends on what genre you are playing... some genres lend themselves to bass solos and walking basslines... a lot of genres focus on vocals and guitars.

-*-

i hope you could check out the thread i started (its just a few threads down) ... cause it looks like were in the same situation... just change the words "clacking bass tone" to "overplaying." the opinions and ideas there are priceless.

it could be easier if you could provide clips too (it would also make you more vulnerable)

[prd004]

The more instruments in a group or performance tends to leave less room for the bass.
Hard-headed guitarists/keyboard band leaders can do the same!
Ask yourself the hard question, is there room in the music for the bass lines you want to play? Do the lines you want to play actually enhance the music? If there's no room in the project for the bass to stretch out that's one thing. If the musicians you are playing with are just closed-minded, and hard-headed, that is another.
If it's the former and simple bass lines are what's required for the music, just decide weather or not that's for you. Usually in this situation I would either seek compensation or seek another project.
If it's just hard headed band members with no vision as to what the bass can do, I would look for a project that interests me.

[Gaius46]

Your part may sound really good in isolation but does it play well with everything else? You can have to coolest sounding line this side of "Come On Come Over" but if you're stepping in other people's sonic space the song is going to suffer. Especially when you're talking about the kind of instrumentation you seem to have.

I used to be a very busy player. Now I try to say more with less.

[HeadyVan Halen]

The answer that applies for ANY situation in life:
How Much Are You Getting Paid?

Alot= Play what they want you to. It is a job
Not alot/Nothing= Tell them to f*** off

[WalterBush]

Just out of curiosity, do you write the sub-bass/cello/whatever parts that are taking up parts of the bass' spectrum? How involved are you in the songwriting process? Do you just wait until they call you in to do your bit, or are you right there at the beginning?

[leegreenman]

I think a lot of players come across this type of situation at some point. Just keep in mind that just because a part is interesting on its own, it may not actually enhance the song as a whole. A lot of producers and songwriters also have very genre specific ideas about what a bass guitar should and shouldn't do. Not saying this is right or wrong, just passing on what I've learned over time.

[tZer]

Originally Posted by BassPlayingCat

I love to write interesting bass parts but whatever I come out with gets pretty much shot down as it is 'too busy'. It seems like some of the band members treat the bass as a filling instrument and don't think about it's full potential. We are a production-heavy band so we have cellos and sub-bass etc on recordings and backing tracks so I might as well not even turn up if I'm just playing the same as what's on the tracks.

I don't just go crazy with random notes, I think very carefully and pick every hit for a purpose, but all they want is root notes! It's so frustrating!

Have any of you had this experience before/know what to do?

Thanks,
Chris

Is the band you are in and referring to the one you link to in your profile?

[VitalSigns]

Originally Posted by HeadyVan Halen

The answer that applies for ANY situation in life:
How Much Are You Getting Paid?

Alot= Play what they want you to. It is a job
Not alot/Nothing= Tell them to f*** off

Seems logical.

[Medford Bassman]

Just remember to find the "1". the rest will take care of itself.

[zephyr_words]

Originally Posted by tZer

Is the band you are in and referring to the one you link to in your profile?

Yeah, if that's the band you're talking about it doesn't seem like there is much room for you to do too much else than what's going on.

Both songs are really good but barely sound like separate songs.

[Art Araya]

it's tough to give accurate input without hearing the songs and your idea of appropriate bass lines for the songs.

i used to over play. tried to add an interesting bass line to every song. but some songs do call for just root notes. the older i've gotten, the fewer notes i play. i think this is generally true of most musicians.

try to say as much as possible with as few notes as possible. make sure you're being polite just like in an actual spoken conversation. don't over-speak, don't fill every hole, leave some space for others, listen to their ideas and play off of them too, try to say something with your lines - don't just run your fingers on patterned riffs, etc...

now, it could be that your band mates do have a very limited concept of the role of the bass guitar. i once played with a person who would freak out if i played the third of a chord rather than the root. he couldn't hear it. he was sure i was playing the wrong note. i wasn't even being creative here, it was the bass line on the recording. that was frustrating and very artistically limiting. fortunately this was only for a few months.

[onosson]

Usually, the best thing to do is play *the* best part for a song, not *your* best part. There is a big difference.

[Art Araya]

Originally Posted by NineSpine

I just think the idea should be out there that maybe your lines ARE too busy or maybe they are just busy in a way that simply doesn't sound good. It's always important in situations like this to take a hard look at yourself and make extra-sure that the criticism you are complaining about isn't actually correct.

I've noticed a very prominent trend, on this board more than anywhere, of bassists having a serious oppression complex. In my real life experience, most musicians who constantly complain that people are holding them back or don't get them... well they just aren't very good and can't accept it, or they are actually good and they have an ego that is really cramping their ability to access that talent.

On this messageboard, I can only go by what I've seen in real life. It's perfectly likely that you are in the right and your band isn't. We on the board can't exactly know what goes on in the studio for you. So, all I'm saying is to take a hard look and make sure the problem really lies in the rest of the band. If you can honestly say it does, then I'm sure there will be fifty other people replying to this giving you perfectly sound advice.

Wonderful input.

I am the head of the music ministry in my church. i audition the players, i schedule the players, i lead the rehearsal and have to give input when something being played isn't working. what you describe here is exactly my experience, having done this for years with MANY different musicians.

Be open to the critique of your band mates - they could be giving you life-giving, honest feedback that you need to receive in order to improve your playing.