Non-reading bassist in all reading band

soulgroovn · #1 08-23-2006, 05:28 AM

So I'm going to audition for an R&B, soul, and funk group and the first thing I was asked is if I can read a chart. Well, I can read the changes and improv but I'm not strong enough to follow the note by note lines in real time. I guess another scenario would be they want to try a new tune at rehearsal and everyone gets through it but me (outside of improve). They're just doing covers so I can do the usual, cop the lines off of the CD, and they only rewrite the horn sections so I told them that I have a quick ear and that I wouldn't be a burden.

What does everyone think? I'm just gonna go for it but am I asking for trouble in the long run?

Thanks!

Mike

morf · #2 08-23-2006, 05:46 AM

If they're ok with you in the band, I dont see the trouble. Just do your thing and it seems everybody will be happy.

Bruce Lindfield · #3 08-23-2006, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morf

If they're ok with you in the band, I dont see the trouble. Just do your thing and it seems everybody will be happy.

How do you know this - what experience do you have, to make you think this will be the case?

morf · #4 08-23-2006, 06:09 AM

Well it seems to me if the band's ok with accepting him in the band, they don't have a problem with him not being able to read...

If they did they wouldn't let him in, since he obviously didn't make any promise to learn how, and they're apparently letting him in, it should be fine.

I dont even know why I'm replying to your lame post either way though.

morf · #5 08-23-2006, 06:10 AM

Not to mention he said in his post, and I quote "what does everyone think" and knowing the definition of the word "everyone" I think he also meant me

Now if you have a problem with my post report it to mods, and give me a good laugh.

Theres also the fact you're replying to my post and not his in his own thread. Good job helping people out, you're a peach.

Bruce Lindfield · #6 08-23-2006, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morf

Not to mention he said in his post, and I quote "what does everyone think" and knowing the definition of the word "everyone" I think he also meant me ..

I was simply interested in what experience you have of this kind of thing - i.e. bands where everybody is reading.... that allows you to give advice?

This may help the original poster decide whether your answer is relevant or not...?
__________________

Quote:

Theres also the fact you're replying to my post and not his in his own thread. Good job helping people out, you're a peach.

Well - if somebody is giving bad advice based on no experience whatsoever, with factual errors - I think that it is helping the original poster, to point this out!

morf · #7 08-23-2006, 06:45 AM

I'm not wrong with my assumptions. He's already auditioned, and if he says he's going to gof or it after auditioning it implies the band wants him. Knowing that, my experience is totally irelevant to his question, which was is he going to have trouble in the long run. Of course he'll have trouble but if the band accepted him he has the skills to be in it and it won't be much of a problem.

Read his post properly before you try to troll on mine.

For the record what I did wasnt giving advice, but my opinion. I didnt tell him to do anything, just told him what I thought of his situation, as it is what he asked. But we'll see when he reads this if he thinks my post doesn't belong in his thread.

Kenny Allyn · #8 08-23-2006, 06:46 AM

... "R&B, soul, and funk" with charts now that IS funny.

DWBass · #9 08-23-2006, 06:54 AM

^^Word!^^ I've been playing for over 30 years and maybe 1% of any auditions I've ever had asked me to read! I've always been provided a recording of one type or another. That 1% was for jazz gigs for which I already new the songs!

Do your thing! You'll be okay!

Bruce Lindfield · #10 08-23-2006, 06:58 AM

I think generally "reading a chart" is looking at chord changes and the arrangement - so you don't usually get written bass lines. I think it would be useful to be able to read a chart - it's not that hard and it's a useful aid to help you remember endings and features etc.

Generally in bands like that horn players are reading written parts, so they get the harmonies for backings and riffs etc.

BassChuck · #11 08-23-2006, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I think generally "reading a chart" is looking at chord changes and the arrangement - so you don't usually get written bass lines. I think it would be useful to be able to read a chart - it's not that hard and it's a useful aid to help you remember endings and features etc.

Generally in bands like that horn players are reading written parts, so they get the harmonies for backings and riffs etc.

Yea, this has been my experience. There might be a specific bass line somewhere in the chart, usually a unison with horns, or in the case of a cover tune, some line that is idenified with the song. I've seen a few where there is a line in the first measure or two and the notation "in a similar fashion" and then the rest of the chart is just chords.

If you're going to present yourself as a 'reading bass player' you'd better be able to do notes for the entire chart. Most of the time just knowing what to do with chord symbols is what is implied.

Crazyeelboy · #12 08-23-2006, 01:37 PM

+1 to Kenny Allen!

Back to the point. I agree with BassChuck - be honest about your reading ability - don't tell them you can sight read if you can't. While reading may or may not be so important to this gig, being honest will be. If you get caught fibbing, you'll look like a total tool.

Tell the truth, lay down the groove and see what happens.

Passinwind · #13 08-24-2006, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulgroovn

So I'm going to audition for an R&B, soul, and funk group and the first thing I was asked is if I can read a chart. Well, I can read the changes and improv but I'm not strong enough to follow the note by note lines in real time.

Are the bass lines written out note by note ? I get jazz calls pretty often that work just as Bruce said. The expectation in my case is that I can walk over the changes, and solo adequately even on unfamiliar tunes after I've heard a few choruses from the other soloists. Learning off a CD at home isn't enough, although everybody I work with would probably take the time to play me the tune if I've never heard it, if I'm lucky enough to have a rehearsal before the gig.

I've also occasionally subbed at rehearsals with the local big band. Like you, I'm not really there when it comes to serious realtime note reading. But I can generally make the band swing harder than the better reader who has the bass chair, so they put up with me for the moment. I wouldn't feel comfortable gigging with that band though, FWIW.

If I were you, I'd work on improving your reading skills ASAP. That's your best bet for avoiding trouble later.

Vandelay · #14 08-24-2006, 07:07 PM

Just ask to see some of their charts. As others have posted, it's very likely that they won't have any bass lines written down. But getting familiar with the charts will be useful for noting the chord changes, and also for mapping out the form and arrangement of the song (i.e. the sequence of verses, choruses, bridges, horn breaks, etc). During rehearsal, they may say "let's pick it up from section C", or "let's pick it up from bar #48", and you'll want to be able to follow what they're talking about.

And I can say this because I'm a non-reading bass player in a soul/funk/R&B band where the horn players, keyboard player, and drummer rely on charts when learning a song. (But no one uses them onstage).

Dr. Cheese · #15 08-24-2006, 07:08 PM

I'm a very poor reader (spend too much time buying basses instead of practicing) and I have played with strong readers. This usually works if the music is pretty groove oriented. Since I have less time as I get older, I will have to get better at reading (my chord chart ability has already improved with regular scale drills in multiple positions to increase note recognition) so I can learn songs more quickly.

soulgroovn · #16 08-25-2006, 03:36 PM

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the advice and insight to my question.

Just as a follow up, I aced the audition last night and as a matter of fact, one of the horn players actually asked me (very nicely and politely) if I read while I was setting up. I said no, shrugged it off, and continued to setup. After that I proceeded to lay down the funk and locked in with the drummer from the first song. No one asked about the reading skills afterwards but they did ask me to come back next week! First gig is in three weeks.....

Mike

Vandelay · #17 08-25-2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulgroovn

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the advice and insight to my question.

Just as a follow up, I aced the audition last night and as a matter of fact, one of the horn players actually asked me (very nicely and politely) if I read while I was setting up. I said no, shrugged it off, and continued to setup. After that I proceeded to lay down the funk and locked in with the drummer from the first song. No one asked about the reading skills afterwards but they did ask me to come back next week! First gig is in three weeks.....

Mike

That's awesome news! Get ready to have fun playing some of the best music there is!!

scorpionldr · #18 08-25-2006, 10:04 PM

roots and fives for sambas, and as fr as walking goes, it's the same rules for all players....play anything you want as connected as possible so long as it's IN THE KEY

spudmaster34 · #19 08-25-2006, 10:58 PM

I would think you would be ok, for now, I would suggest throwing some excercises to learn standard notation into your regular practice schedule. You might not need it for this band, but it can't hurt

soulgroovn · #20 09-20-2006, 12:20 PM

Caution: Semi-RANT

I'm bumping this up again just so I can give everyone a follow up. After listening to the same 4 cd's for the last three weeks and countless hours of practicing learning the tunes, I've just been informed that the band has broken up before I was even able to rehearse with them. I was kinda suspicious about it after they kept on telling me no practice this week and I'm also pretty sure it's a breakup and not me because my contact asked me if I wanted to start a new project from the ground up with him. But never the less, talk about demoralizing. I was really looking forward to this gig and I'm suddenly reminded why I decided to take such a long break from this before.

I know that I gotta get back on the horse ASAP but it was a real kick in the nuts when I got the email this morning. Someone please send me some talkbass love to cheer me up!

Thanks!!

Mike