Not clicking with the drummer?

[John Webb]

I suggested we practice with a metronome......got scoffed at.......I feel like I am fighting to keep a steady beat.
Don't know if it's me or what. I've not had this problem b4.

So what have y'all done when this problem is encountered?

I'm sort of depressed about this........

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by John Webb

I suggested we practice with a metronome......got scoffed at.......I feel like I am fighting to keep a steady beat.
Don't know if it's me or what. I've not had this problem b4.

So what have y'all done when this problem is encountered?

I'm sort of depressed about this........

Got the same issue here. Plays too fast! Plays too slow! Plays the wrong kick pattern for the songs so there's no 'locking in' at all! Takes 2 bar (8 beat) transitions instead of 1/2 or 1 bar! Never falls back right on the 1! Ugh!

I'm depressed now just thinking about it!

[jaywa]

It's very important that you can hear... really hear... each other.

My current band, I'm working with a drummer who's young enough to be my son but is very good for his age, yet the first few months we worked together something just wasn't quite right. I'd have his kick and hat up in my IEM and was trying my best but sometimes things weren't quite right yet, especially on tempos. Finally I asked him, "are you hearing me" and he said "well the bass is always distorting so I can't really turn you up." Turns out we had the feed to his IEMs cranked way too high at the board. The first gig after we got that fixed he said "man, now I can really hear what you're doing" and not surprisingly, it was a gig we locked better than we ever had before. It's just been getting better from there.

Of course, being able to hear -- and "listening" -- are two different things but until you have the first, the second can't happen.

[klejst]

If he, and the rest of the band are not against it, see if at least the drummer would use a metronome so at least he can keep time and better help everyone else keep time. That is what my band did until we were able to afford and buy a metronome system and in-ear for every member. It worked well for us because we always strived to be on time and perform our best.

[ThingsAbove]

If you're not clicking with him suggest a click track... One band I'm in has starting using an in-ear click and it's made the drummer quite aware "ahem" of his timing.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by klejst

If he, and the rest of the band are not against it, see if at least the drummer would use a metronome so at least he can keep time and better help everyone else keep time. That is what my band did until we were able to afford and buy a metronome system and in-ear for every member. It worked well for us because we always strived to be on time and perform our best.

Props to your band for going the extra mile to improve the time not just of your drummer, but the whole group.

So many so-called musicians think their time is infallible. Just a couple songs playing against a metronome or click track cuts most of them right down to size.

[mellowinman]

I am on Drummer Number Five. After hearing Drummer Number Five play, I am demanding Notarized Letters of Apology from Drummers One through Four.

Trust me.

You need a really GOOD Drummer.

Play with the metronome, and see if you can save this.

Otherwise MOVE ON.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I am on Drummer Number Five. After hearing Drummer Number Five play, I am demanding Notarized Letters of Apology from Drummers One through Four.

Trust me.

You need a really GOOD Drummer.

+100. And by "Good" we don't mean someone who plays incredible solos or has a huge kit. It's about time, feel and taste. In other words, a musician on drums. A band with one of those drummers will get gigs and make money for a long time. A band that doesn't, really not so much.

[Mojo-Man]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I am on Drummer Number Five. After hearing Drummer Number Five play, I am demanding Notarized Letters of Apology from Drummers One through Four.

Trust me.

You need a really GOOD Drummer.

Play with the metronome, and see if you can save this.

Otherwise MOVE ON.

We all had this issue.
To me the drummer is the key to a great band.
If it's a time issue, try working just the two of you.
Someone has to give, either you or the drummer has to dictate time, I've play with drummers who would not try to groove with me, at some point you just have to ignore them and play.
If song is still off, rest of band will notice drummers fault.

[Mike Dunbar]

It's great to have a good drummer, but it's rare. A great drummer once told me a trick to locking in with him and other drummers. Listen to the hi hat, not the kick. By the time the kick hits, you're too late to adjust. Most halfway decent drummers won't jump time within a quarter note, they tend to rush or slow fairly fluidly. When that's the case, you can hear it in the hi hat or the ride. So don't concentrate on the one and three, concentrate on the * e and uh two e and a * e and a four e and uh, and you'll lock better even when the drummer is Russian (that's what they told me...the drummer was Russian!)

[skychief]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

Trust me.

You need a really GOOD Drummer.

Play with the metronome, and see if you can save this.

Otherwise MOVE ON.

+1
The next best thing to having a good drummer is having a drummer who WANTS to be good. He will woodshed with a metronome without being prodded by his BMs.

[TripleDouble]

You can either not let it get to you, get out, or get rid of him. They can not be fixed, no matter how hard you try. I've been lucky to play with some amazing drummers over the years, but my best friend from childhood is a pretty wretched drummer and I like playing with him too.

+1 to skychief, case in point with my friend, he is well aware that he doesn't have the flashiest chops or perfect time...

[Nev375]

Sometimes we get to choose who we work with, other times it's a question of playing with a bad musician or playing alone.

What I suggest is getting a drum machine that has lots of preset rhythms and switching the beat to something random frequently. See how quick you can adjust what you're playing to the new beat.

I've played with a lot of bad drummers, and when they forget what they were just doing, I change it up pretty quick and try to keep it locked down. You would be surprised at in how few beats this can be done. Some people react with what the..?, others with whoa! cool! Usually the other good musicians around know who the weak link is and what's happening.

The side benefit is you also improve your sense of dynamics when you are with a good drummer. They will think you are a mind reader.

So yeah, play with good musicians when you can. Just keep playing.

[UncleJimmy]

I've had my share of drummers with timekeeping issues. The best thing I ever did was set them up with my drum machine into headphones while we were practicing. It takes some getting used to, and is frustrating to all involved because there will be a lot of stopping songs when you've fallen off the beat. The end result is worth it.

I've tried pumping the click track through the PA for all to hear but found this kills the feel. I'd rather have the band learn to rely on the drummer.

For this to work, you'll have to be diplomatic in suggesting the idea to your drummer. Nothing can crush a guy quicker than being told he can't keep time. Approach it is an overall improvement tool. I've taken the blame myself when dealing with a fragile ego by suggesting that my bassline may be slowing the song down, and by using the click track the drummer will be able to overcome my mistake and keep us in line. Worked like a charm! I'll take the blame because the end result is what's important, not who's at fault.

[mellowinman]

I like this drummer so much that right now, I am willing to go pick him up for rehearsals, as he has car issues, and will have for awhile. I also keep my cell handy, and make sure he gets a response every time he calls. I have sort of adopted him. The rest of the band thinks I'm weird, but, well, they're right. I am.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by UncleJimmy

I've tried pumping the click track through the PA for all to hear but found this kills the feel. I'd rather have the band learn to rely on the drummer.

Same here. Let the drummer set time and everyone else follow him (or her).

Although, I subbed a couple times in a church where everyone had the click (even the singers) and it was so cool to be able to drop the whole band out and still have the singers keep time without an acoustic guitar strumming, a hi hat going or some other lame crutch.

[Jools4001]

I'm always amazed by the total lack of patience that some people demonstrate on TB. "Not working within 5 minutes?....Move on".

Well, that may be the answer for people with very little tolerance.

For me, I'm currently playing with a drummer where it didn't click straight away. We both joined the current band at the same time and were sort of thrown together, and we found that we had timekeeping issues, or would both go for a fill at the same time but with different ideas about the accents on that fill. However, we both respect each other and arranged a few 'rhythm section' only sessions where we would play along to CD's together and listen back to rehearsal recordings. I would point out where he'd rushed a fill and left me to carry the time, he would point out the ponts that he was trying to accent.

We've only had 3 sessions like this so far and it has improved how tight we are no end, I'm sure that it will continue to improve - not to mention the fact that we're bonding both musically and as buddies. Sometimes, a musical relationship takes hard work and commitment.

[basslinejam]

I didn't read anything folks have said in this thread but your title gave me a flashback jolt to a similar experience. I used to end gigs with a sore right leg from hammering the stage to keep my drummer on top of the beat. On the one hand there is a lot you can do to improve (metronomic practice etc.), but on the other hand, sometimes musicians just feel time differently and that's where the ears come in. I had to stop trying to pull him along to what I was doing and figure out what he was listening to (it clearly wasn't me). Turns out it was our (very talented and swinging) guitar player. I learned to focus on and compliment what the guitar player was doing and connected to the drums much better. Not an ideal situation for the rhythm section, but listening bridged the gap. YMMV

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by basslinejam

I didn't read anything folks have said in this thread but your title gave me a flashback jolt to a similar experience. I used to end gigs with a sore right leg from hammering the stage to keep my drummer on top of the beat. On the one hand there is a lot you can do to improve (metronomic practice etc.), but on the other hand, sometimes musicians just feel time differently and that's where the ears come in. I had to stop trying to pull him along to what I was doing and figure out what he was listening to (it clearly wasn't me). Turns out it was our (very talented and swinging) guitar player. I learned to focus on and compliment what the guitar player was doing and connected to the drums much better. Not an ideal situation for the rhythm section, but listening bridged the gap. YMMV

An example I always point to in this vein is Stevie Ray Vaughn and Double Trouble. If you really break it down, those three guys had three very different time feels but somehow they managed to put it all together into something special.

For me anyway it's always a lot more fun to lay things down with a solid drummer and have everyone else fall into what we're laying down (as opposed to "splitting the difference" between the drummer and somebody else)... but we as bassists don't always get to make that call. Sometimes we just have to bite down and do what we have to do to make the song work.

[jkramer5]

Yuk, not locking with the drummer would be like wearing 2 left shoes. I'd get a new pair of shoes, or a new drummer.