Noticing a pattern as I audition...

P. Aaron · #1 10-13-2011, 06:12 AM

I have been bumped From auditions on many occasions because the band found a 'friend' who plays bass that they've decided to have join their act. Frustrating yes, but part of the reality.

I use CL just because it's a time saver and I have only a few connections personally that I also work but, here's what's showing up:

I've posted ads on my regional CL stating my experience etc. 30% of the replies I get, this is the general conversation: "...yeah he's a friend and a good guy but he's not helping us improve, or has 'issues' that affect performances".

Theses acts seem to have a hard time firing the 'buddy'. Time is short, when I get another call describing this to me, I will be pointed and state: '...fine, you've recognized a problem. Now, what's more important, your band, or your buddy's feelings? Do you have the guts to do what you need to do to improve? If you're just calling to complain, we're done. If you're serious, you'll call me when you're ready to make a change'.

Ed Fuqua · #2 10-13-2011, 06:30 AM

And how likely is it that the response is going be "you know, he's right, let's hire him immediately!"?

I have yet to see any serious musicians advertise on CL, it's mostly folks who don't have a very wide network of musicians. I'd suggest less reading and more hanging.

P. Aaron · #3 10-13-2011, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

And how likely is it that the response is going be "you know, he's right, let's hire him immediately!"?

I have yet to see any serious musicians advertise on CL, it's mostly folks who don't have a very wide network of musicians. I'd suggest less reading and more hanging.

The 2 most effective answers I am looking for are 'yes' or 'no'. Either will do. Time is of the essence here and I am merely trying to use less of it.

busmandan · #4 10-13-2011, 07:16 AM

I left a band a few months ago because the other guys couldn't muster the stones to dump a sub-standard drummer. Last I heard, they can't find anyone else that will play with him.

punkinfantry · #5 10-13-2011, 07:20 AM

I saw a pretty funny ad about a week ago, "me and my best friend are starting a band, we are singers and need guitar, drums, bass, keys..." you get the idea

Ric5 · #6 10-13-2011, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

I have been bumped From auditions on many occasions because the band found a 'friend' who plays bass that they've decided to have join their act. Frustrating yes, but part of the reality.

That's what happened in Jethro Tull ... they fired Glen Cornick (a very good bassist) and hired a friend Jeffery Hammond who had less skills on bass.

Sometimes band members are chosen based on friendship.

P. Aaron · #7 10-13-2011, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric5

That's what happened in Jethro Tull ... they fired Glen Cornick (a very good bassist) and hired a friend Jeffery Hammond who had less skills on bass.

Sometimes band members are chosen based on friendship.

Many of the replies to my CL ads have been band folks complaining about their 'friend' or 'good guy' being what's holding them back. Being tired of hearing them rant, I'll just throw it back at them: "...are you making a change or just looking to rant?"

I want a gig, I am not into unpaid consulting.

bunkaroo · #8 10-13-2011, 07:38 AM

I was scouring CL for a long time trying to find a good original band. Ultimately the band I landed in last year I got into because the guitar player remembered me from several years ago when we played on the same bill.

Conversely I've seen several high profile bass gigs get filled without ads placed in bands I would have loved to had a shot ay playing in.

As with many things in music, it's who you know.

lfmn16 · #9 10-13-2011, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

Theses acts seem to have a hard time firing the 'buddy'. Time is short, when I get another call describing this to me, I will be pointed and state: '...fine, you've recognized a problem. Now, what's more important, your band, or your buddy's feelings? Do you have the guts to do what you need to do to improve? If you're just calling to complain, we're done. If you're serious, you'll call me when you're ready to make a change'.

Most part time bands are looking for members that are easy going. You may want to tone this down a bit because if I ran into someone with this attitude I'd run like a rabbit - the other way.

What else are you doing to find a band? I used to go see bands and if I liked them I'd approach someone in the band and say, "You've go a really great bass player, but if he ever leaves, give me a call." and then hand them my card. It worked a couple of times. I also went to a lot of open mikes and made connections. Try it and maybe YOU will be the friend they hire instead of everyone else.

Everyone that has ever auditioned understands your frustration, but if you put yourself in the shoes of the band looking for someone, I think you'll have a whole different attitude. You want to be the guy that solves their problem, not the guy that brings new problems.

Good Luck

P. Aaron · #10 10-13-2011, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfmn16

Most part time bands are looking for members that are easy going. You may want to tone this down a bit because if I ran into someone with this attitude I'd run like a rabbit - the other way. Good Luck

thanks for the wishes. The call that prompted this post informed Me that his band worked 40+ shows a year. Weddings, corporate, and clubs. He put on airs about how 'serious' they were at maintaining a quality act. O.k.

I like that kind of thing too. It would be wonderful to be a part of. Now, my words at the top sound quite harsh...indeed. My interview manner is probably more pleasant that this post but..., if you get this kind of verbiage from a prospective act, are you going to hope they treat the problem and call you back? The percentages are against that happening unless you in a gentle but pointed way, help them realize you could solve their problem...IF they deal with it.

Otherwise, there's no sale here. You're still lookin' they go and suffer along.

lfmn16 · #11 10-13-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

thanks for the wishes. The call that prompted this post informed Me that his band worked 40+ shows a year. Weddings, corporate, and clubs. He put on airs about how 'serious' they were at maintaining a quality act. O.k.

The problem is that there are a limited number of good bands; people tend to stay in them and it's such a hassle replacing people that bands keep the problem children until it gets really bad. When they do replace the trouble makers, they are likely to go with someone they already know.

The best way to get around this is to be the guy they already know, but that isn't easy. I was luck - I was in the same band for almost seven years and when I left I took the drummer with me and started a new band right away for another three years. I got burned out and have taken a long time off, but

I'm just starting to go through the audition thing - undependable people; people that can't play; people that aren't prepared; auditions rescheduled or running late; auditioning and getting no response; learning songs and having auditions canceled; learning songs and showing up just to wish it had been cancelled. I'm just staying centered and focusing on my goal - get in a decent band.

SeaBassSteve · #12 10-13-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunkaroo

As with many things in life, it's who you know.

Fixed

bluewine · #13 10-13-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfmn16

I'm just starting to go through the audition thing - undependable people; people that can't play; people that aren't prepared; auditions rescheduled or running late; auditioning and getting no response; learning songs and having auditions canceled; learning songs and showing up just to wish it had been cancelled. I'm just staying centered and focusing on my goal - get in a decent band.

We are at the point, my band broke up on August. I just want to be in a decent band with strong bookings. These opportunities in my region are limited.

The other piece of the pie is, the good bands with bookings usually have friends that have been waiting to get in the band.

In the future I am going to start asking these bands if they are auditioning any friends. Then depending on the circumstance I may or may not do the audition.

I have been burnt by the "friend auditioning" scenario 3 times in 2011.

Ed Fuqua · #14 10-13-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

The 2 most effective answers I am looking for are 'yes' or 'no'. Either will do. Time is of the essence here and I am merely trying to use less of it.

ed predicts you will hear NO close to 100% of the time. But as always, it's no skin off my nose. So good luck with that.

Have a blessed day.

skychief · #15 10-13-2011, 12:19 PM

Im the guy who shoulda been fired but wasnt because of my 16-year friendship with the founders (guitarist & drummer) of the band. Both these guys know far superior bassists than me, hell, the guitar player's 15 year old son can play circles around me on bass guitar. *sigh* but these guys keep me on because of our friendship; tho they would never admit it.

But i feel your pain, OP. Sounds like these bands might be using you as a catalyst to whip their bass player into shape. But at least youre recognizing that. Best of luck to you...

P. Aaron · #16 10-13-2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

ed predicts you will hear NO close to 100% of the time. But as always, it's no skin off my nose. So good luck with that.

Have a blessed day.

Close to 100% of the time is okay too. Any of us that have been in the wilderness see those odds as typical.

It's just a funny (if not tragic) thing that I post an ad and get replies from what seem like decent acts wanting to unload dead weight but lack the courage, or the will to simply do it.

TB is also a helpful workshop of sorts filled with helpful folks like yourself that help us hone raw ideas into more effective solutions. In large part, that's why I posted the thought. Many suggestions have been helpful indeed. Thank you.

**bassybill** · #17 10-13-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunkaroo

I was scouring CL for a long time trying to find a good original band. Ultimately the band I landed in last year I got into because the guitar player remembered me from several years ago when we played on the same bill.

Conversely I've seen several high profile bass gigs get filled without ads placed in bands I would have loved to had a shot ay playing in.

As with many things in music, it's who you know.

True dat. For a long time now, every gig I've had has come in because of a connection. Come to think of it, I don't recall ever answering an advertisement for a bass player. In over 30 years!

MysticMichael · #18 10-13-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfmn16

Most part time bands are looking for members that are easy going. You may want to tone this down a bit because if I ran into someone with this attitude I'd run like a rabbit - the other way.

And if I were in the OP's position, I would welcome your retreat. For the sake of clarity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfmn16

Everyone that has ever auditioned understands your frustration, but if you put yourself in the shoes of the band looking for someone, I think you'll have a whole different attitude. You want to be the guy that solves their problem, not the guy that brings new problems.

Reading the OP's posts, it seems very clear that this is exactly what he's trying to do. In return, he's asking only to be made aware of where he stands.

That doesn't seem an unreasonable request in my book...

MM

ChrisB2 · #19 10-14-2011, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkinfantry

I saw a pretty funny ad about a week ago, "me and my best friend are starting a band, we are singers and need guitar, drums, bass, keys..." you get the idea

Yeah ha ha.

I saw a funny one once: "Band looking for bass, drums, and vocals. If you can provide the practice space and PA that would be great."

This is a band??

jakelly · #20 10-14-2011, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfmn16

I'm just starting to go through the audition thing - undependable people; people that can't play; people that aren't prepared; auditions rescheduled or running late; auditioning and getting no response; learning songs and having auditions canceled; learning songs and showing up just to wish it had been cancelled. I'm just staying centered and focusing on my goal - get in a decent band.

All of these things sound familiar. I could add being handed the gig after audition and then being replaced as they keep on searching for a bassist behind your back, or retained if they could not find better.

I don't know what it is about being in a band... often turning otherwise reasonable people into... well... Kinda makes them forget who they are, which in most cases, isn't anything that special.