Observations after coming back . . .

Since I started playing again a few years ago (at the age of 39) and making the rounds, I've played with lots of people. One band situation, some 'potential' band situations, one-off jam sessions at rehersal studios, etc, etc. Overall, I've met quite a few musicians.

Anyway; here are some personal (and of course subjective) ramblings, for what they're worth. These are geared toward the 'young-uns.'

- I've met some really damn good bass players. Since I'm a bass player, this probably isn't abnormal. I tend to hang about places where bass gear is sold, hence . . .
- I've played with a few OK drummers, one really good drummer, and a bunch of awful drummers. Good drummers will raise the bar and improve your playing. Your deficiencies will become very apparent, and you can work on them. If you find a good drummer, bribe him/her with food or something to keep them around.
- Guitar players are a dime a dozen, but good guitar players are much rarer than I thought.
- Re: the above, a lot of guitarists have terrible timing. They will rely on YOU to pull them through. Tell them to buy a metronome. It's EVERYONE'S job to keep time in a band.
- Young musicians, by and large, do not have good ear-training compared to the young musicians I trained with as a kid. When I was a kid, everyone learned cover songs by ear. We went to charts/tabs (if there were any) only when we absolutely couldn't figure something out. Now, the first thing musicians reach for are tabs even before listening to the damn songs. Tabs have taken the place of ear training, IMO, and that's bad. They serve a purpose, but they are not a cure-all. Your ears are your most important tool, not some dots on a piece of paper. Train them.
- A lot of musicians know a lot of fancy stuff but have trouble just GROOVING. Regular non-musician people don't care about fancy technique; all they want to hear is a good GROOVE. Victor Wooten, a fancy technique guy, said something like this, and I believe him.
- The bassists I've met (from all genres) are probably the most well-rounded musicians out of everyone. Comfortable in various genres, wide musical tastes, etc. That's really cool.
- I actually enjoy practicing
- I really wish I was a better student when I was younger
- A good teacher is worth his/her weight in gold
- Don't get stuck in one genre. Make a concerted effort to familiarize yourself with various genres and learn how to play them. I'm basically a metal guy, but Rocco Prestia is hands down one of my favorite players.
- If you're young and you enjoy playing, don't quit. You might think other things are more important. They're not. Trsut me, I know.

[Marginal Tom]

Jhan, I quit (new job, new city, more work and more family responsibilities) at 35, then restarted at age 62, after my wife died. I agree with your observations.

I'm somewhere between a weekend warrior and a hobbyist at this stage, and don't expect fame or fortune to come my way. The internet can be a wonderful source for lyrics, chords and tabs, but I have learned that many of them are slightly or horribly wrong. I always listen to the songs first, then try to make the necessary corrections.

[sackvegas]

Good thread

[EddiePlaysBass]

Originally Posted by jhan

- If you're young and you enjoy playing, don't quit. You might think other things are more important. They're not. Trsut me, I know.

Here here. I'm 29, and I'm at a point where I am seriously considering a "break" of sorts. I am fed up with my band (take any recent rant from the Band Management threads, and they seem to apply to my situation) and have the fullest intention of letting it wither and die.

Plus, I'm at a crossroads in my life. Most important change right now is a change of job, which will make me travel abroad but give me more time to practice, once I get back in the habit. Plus I -finally- found a bass teacher with whom I hope to start studying soong.

Bottom line, at this point I have other worries: new job, (positive) stuff with the girlfriend and I started jogging because my BMI is frightening and I need to take action. So right now everything else takes priority, but I don't plan on selling my gear any time soon. I'll work hard, study hard and when the time comes to get back into action, I'll be ready.

Hopefully

[Jeb]

I can't disagree with any of the OPs observations. But I've found its much more complex than that. Especially when we take an objective look at ourselves as bass players. This promises to be a good thread maybe?

Just don't stop playing. Everything you experience will inform you as an artist.

Originally Posted by EddiePlaysBass

Here here. I'm 29, and I'm at a point where I am seriously considering a "break" of sorts. I am fed up with my band (take any recent rant from the Band Management threads, and they seem to apply to my situation) and have the fullest intention of letting it wither and die.

Plus, I'm at a crossroads in my life. Most important change right now is a change of job, which will make me travel abroad but give me more time to practice, once I get back in the habit. Plus I -finally- found a bass teacher with whom I hope to start studying soong.

Bottom line, at this point I have other worries: new job, (positive) stuff with the girlfriend and I started jogging because my BMI is frightening and I need to take action. So right now everything else takes priority, but I don't plan on selling my gear any time soon. I'll work hard, study hard and when the time comes to get back into action, I'll be ready.

Hopefully

[Moe Monsarrat]

I have just never thought of doing anything else. I cannot imagine giving up, much less coming back. I do understand that others have different priorities. Wives, kids & jobs are all the usual reasons for giving up. I was married for 25 years & raised 4 kids & was a musician the whole time. I am what I am (Popeye!) & no woman, kid, job or anything else can change that. My dad was a professional soldier & felt the same way about his job. Young cats , old cats...they're all the same. The ones that get it always have it & the ones that don't never will. My friend Mike Ballew wrote a song called "Old Pickers" that outlines the whole deal, but one appropriate line reads:
" I could give it all up, lead the straight life again......I've seen guys do it, but I'm not like them." "I' m always as good as I need to be, cause there ain't many choices for old pickers like me."

[craig.p]

> Don't get stuck in one genre. Make a concerted effort to
> familiarize yourself with various genres and learn how to
> play them

Damn good advice. I've lost count of how many songs I've learned and still practice every day -- songs that I'll probably never play in front of anyone but that have made me tighter, or faster, or more-fluid, or better-timed, or better-syncopated.

Let me add something for those starting out. One way of doing status checks on your playing from time to time is to play along with a few songs you think you know pretty well, and to record your bass (and ONLY your bass) -- DRY. No effects at all. Then go back and listen to the bass track you recorded, and ONLY that. The benefit of this is that you don't have the effects and the mix to cover your "almosts." It can be a very humbling experience and will typically show you how much homework you still have left to do.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Originally Posted by Moe Monsarrat

I have just never thought of doing anything else. I cannot imagine giving up, much less coming back. I do understand that others have different priorities. Wives, kids & jobs are all the usual reasons for giving up.

Just to clarify, in case my response triggered this: I am not quitting playing music. I am having ongoing band issues which are too tiresome for me to keep being bothered by. So I'm planning on taking a step back from being an active (i.e. in a band)* musician.

Plus at one point I decided to pick bass over sports, but in the last couple of years I have been hiding behind that decision to not work out at all, and as a result my BMI is now frighteningly high. Whether you believe all that stuff or not is something else, but for me right now getting in some other shape than "very round" is a priority over my band.

That said, I've found my next "bass lesson". On a whim I've bought the Elvis Presley album "From Elvis In Memphis" (Legacy Edition) and it is filled with melodic pop-bass lines. I'm not the best melodic player there is, and these are interesting enough to start working in that direction


* ironically my band hardly ever plays out ...

[Munjibunga]

Great points. I've had the good fortune to play with one great drummer and a bunch of good ones. Maybe one or two bad ones in the last 30 years, and one of them was only 16.

[Sundogue]

At almost 50, I can relate on many levels. I never really gave up being a bass player though I did take some time off over the last 30+ years from actively playing in a band.

The biggest thing to me is the drummers I've played with. I've had the good fortune to play with some fantastic drummers over the years and in fact have played with only one bad drummer in all that time (and that was just an audition).

While I may not be the best or fanciest bass player, almost every single drummer I've ever played with has said pretty much the same thing to me...That I can just "lock in" with them, almost as if I could read their mind. That has meant more to me than anything any other musician could say.

One can learn theory, read sheet music or learn their parts perfectly, but being tight with the drummer and providing a rock solid rhythm section is, to me, the absolute pinnacle of being a good bass player.

I've seen so many flashy bass players, or guys who have the absolute best and most expensive gear, dress the part, have all the moves onstage or have their bass lines down and improvise like no other and yet their band sucks because they just aren't locked in with their drummer. Catchy melodies and flashy instrumentals are all well and good, but the power of music comes from the rhythm section. A tight rhythm section is such a primal force that when tight and grooving gets people moving even when they didn't feel like it. And that is a beautiful thing.

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Great points. I've had the good fortune to play with one great drummer and a bunch of good ones. Maybe one or two bad ones in the last 30 years, and one of them was only 16.

Two bad drummers in 30 years? Honey, you need to go play the lotto, 'cause you have scary-good luck.

Cherie

[txbasschik]

<<<- A lot of musicians know a lot of fancy stuff but have trouble just GROOVING. Regular non-musician people don't care about fancy technique; all they want to hear is a good GROOVE. Victor Wooten, a fancy technique guy, said something like this, and I believe him.
>>>

So true! I disagree with those who feel that fancy technique is the most important thing to show people. No. No, no, no! Its about the groove..."fancy" is just so much fluff unless it serves the song, utterly.

Groove Uber Alles!

Cherie

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by txbasschik

Two bad drummers in 30 years? Honey, you need to go play the lotto, 'cause you have scary-good luck.

Cherie

I must have even better luck as I've never played in a band with a bad one in 30+ years. The closest I came was auditioning with a really bad one. Otherwise I've played with nothing but very good to great drummers. Some weren't fancy, but they were rock solid. Others flashy and still solid. But none were bad...or even close to that.

Somehow that luck didn't translate to Lotto.

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by Sundogue

I must have even better luck as I've never played in a band with a bad one in 30+ years. The closest I came was auditioning with a really bad one. Otherwise I've played with nothing but very good to great drummers. Some weren't fancy, but they were rock solid. Others flashy and still solid. But none were bad...or even close to that.

Somehow that luck didn't translate to Lotto.

I wanna go to Vegas with you and Mungie.

I just want a good solid drummer who can keep time, work with me, and not make me want to kill 'em.

I know a bunch...they're all in three bands!

Cherie

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by txbasschik

I wanna go to Vegas with you and Mungie.

I just want a good solid drummer who can keep time, work with me, and not make me want to kill 'em.

I know a bunch...they're all in three bands!

Cherie

Maybe I'm just picky. I know of quite a few drummers that suck, but I'd rather NOT play at all than play with them. I am much too adamant about having a tight rhythm section to compromise.

Fortunately I guess, I have been lucky to play with solid drummers my entire life. I've always been more impressed with drummers that play simply, yet solidly than the flashy ones that come out of those complex rolls out of time. Heck I'd rather mic a metronome than play with a bad drummer.

Perhaps you should use a drum machine instead of wanting to kill the lame excuse for one?

[Bass Viking]

Originally Posted by jhan

It's EVERYONE'S job to keep time in a band.
- Your ears are your most important tool, not some dots on a piece of paper. Train them.
- A lot of musicians know a lot of fancy stuff but have trouble just GROOVING.

- I actually enjoy practicing

The above points are why I'm a big proponent of playing along with music when practicing. You get to work on your timing, grooving, ear training and it's a lot more fun (to me anyway) than practicing unacommpanied.

Originally Posted by jhan

- Don't get stuck in one genre. Make a concerted effort to familiarize yourself with various genres and learn how to play them.

+1. Versatility is a definite asset in the music business.

I would also add something I was told years by a drummer: Don't be afraid to play something simple. Especially for bass, less is often more and it's important to know when not to play.

[shadow_FIX]

As Victor Wooten's song says: "You can't hold no groove if you ain't got no pocket."

Some people know where the pocket is, and some don't.

[Drop-the-One]

AWESOME Thread!!!

My best friend's a drummer... we've competed, toured and gigged together in highschool/college...
... now I never get to play with him, he's the only drummer that gets me and vice versa!

If there's one thing I can do well, is lock solid with a drummer, whether their timing sucks or not

[HeadyVan Halen]

Cool thread...To the young bucks, learn a song a week. DON'T move on until you learn it inside out..then try different genres..You'll find the stuff that sounds simple (What's going on) is complex and the stuff that sounds complex is simple (Give it away, Soul to Squeeze)..but it's all good...part of being human is to say the younger generation is not as good as we were, but it's all relative........good music is good music