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03-03-2009, 09:14 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Filthydelphia, USA | | | Oh boy! My band got a gig offer from Afton! <sarcasm>
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First off, the only reason why my band has a web page on mywasteoftime.com is so we don't book conflict gigs with other members' bands. It's a good repository we can all check. So the other day I get a semi-literate offer for a booking in the band's email that reads like this:
"hey whats up, was just checkin out your page cuz im booking some shows... i book for afton at clubs in philadelphia and id like to get you in for a show sometime if it works out.
next one im setting up is april 5th @ rusty nail, got some other ones in the works too, so def get back to me at my booking email: phl@aftonlive.com
that way, i can get you all details on how my shows work and all that, hit me bcak if you want to talk further, but im thinking i could get you in for some good stuffletme know?"
Further investigation revealed that these clowns were some national pay-to-play ring.   |
03-03-2009, 11:36 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Michigan | | | and it surprises you that a networking site is being used for networking?
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03-03-2009, 11:45 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Red Hook, New York | | | Um Afton isn't a scam. My band has done shows with them. It's not pay to play. |
03-04-2009, 10:27 PM
|  | Registered User
Endorsing: JH Audio IEMs | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dallas, Texas | | | Afton is pay-to-play. They require you to bring X number of fans to a gig at $Y per person in order to play the gig and will pay you a small percentage of $Y x X if you do. For more info, search "Big Time Entertainment", that is the former name of Afton. |
03-05-2009, 06:07 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Old Hickory Lake, Nashville | | Quote:
Originally Posted by adamrobertt  Um Afton isn't a scam. My band has done shows with them. It's not pay to play. | Are you sure? Did you have to "do" anything for the club besides set up & play?
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It's a B. E. R. G. A. N.T. I. N. O.// Stay out of my freq kitchen. We're cookin' here!
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03-05-2009, 09:55 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wichita, KS | | Quote:
Originally Posted by adamrobertt Um Afton isn't a scam. My band has done shows with them. It's not pay to play. | Are you talking about the production company Afton or a BAND called Afton?
Hey guitfiddle: If I were in your shoes I'd make sure to spread the word to the other bands you know about the Afton scam. y'know, send out some myspace bulletins and such.
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Originally Posted by T.O.Bass People listen to Nickelback? | |
03-05-2009, 09:59 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Leander, Texas | | Quote:
Originally Posted by crijan Afton is pay-to-play. They require you to bring X number of fans to a gig at $Y per person in order to play the gig and will pay you a small percentage of $Y x X if you do. For more info, search "Big Time Entertainment", that is the former name of Afton. | Gross!!! I'm glad I looked at this thread. That way, I will know to immediately turn down any such offers. I do not now, nor will I ever, pay to play.
Cherie |
03-05-2009, 10:07 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Philly | | I've played the Rusty Nail and first off you dont really get paid there unless you think being handed 10 bucks a man is OK. It's a good place to play your stuff live and perhaps gain a little attention. Do your own PR and mamage yourselves. |
03-05-2009, 10:52 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Old Hickory Lake, Nashville | | |
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It's a B. E. R. G. A. N.T. I. N. O.// Stay out of my freq kitchen. We're cookin' here!
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03-05-2009, 11:38 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: northeast Ohio | | | ticket sales, ugh. How many times do i have to tell young bands you don't need to play these types of shows??? They are nothing but a scam. you wouldn't let your boss or your parents take advantage of you like this would you?
I've been approached by Joe, just emails like "hey, love your music, how about a show at "xxx" on such and such a date. I wasn't aware of their scam yet, so i wrote back and said that we were on hiatus and writing new songs. I asked him to explain their show policy and he never wrote back. This probably happened 3 times over 3 months. They know established bands won't play their game, they bank on you saying OK first then they explain the details, hoping you'll feel too uncomfortable to then cancel.
The best thing you can do is tell them you will never pay to play and that you're telling all the other bands you know about their scam. Then follow through on that- send out bulletins, etc.
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03-05-2009, 11:44 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Red Hook, New York | | | We had to sell tickets. It was a bit annoying, but it wasn't pay to play because they didn't make us pay for the remainder of unsold tickets. That would have made it pay to play. We didn't have to give up any money to play the show. |
03-05-2009, 11:49 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Red Hook, New York | | Quote:
Originally Posted by crijan Afton is pay-to-play. They require you to bring X number of fans to a gig at $Y per person in order to play the gig and will pay you a small percentage of $Y x X if you do. For more info, search "Big Time Entertainment", that is the former name of Afton. | That's not what pay to play is, though. Pay to play is being forced to pay the venue for tickets not sold.
Lots of venues/booking agencies use that sort of payscale for bands. If you don't bring out enough people, you can still play the show. You just won't get paid as much/at all. |
03-05-2009, 11:57 AM
|  | OVNIFX
EXAR pedals rep for North & Central America | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: PDX, OR | | | One can argue the semantics of what "pay to play" is, but in my world a gig is one where the venue provides the PA, the band provides the music, both the venue and the band are responsible for advertising, and the money paid to the band is worked out contractually ahead of time--either as a fixed amount or as a percentage of the door.
Anything else IMO is bogus. |
03-05-2009, 12:00 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Red Hook, New York | | Quote:
Originally Posted by bongomania One can argue the semantics of what "pay to play" is, but in my world a gig is one where the venue provides the PA, the band provides the music, both the venue and the band are responsible for advertising, and the money paid to the band is worked out contractually ahead of time--either as a fixed amount or as a percentage of the door.
Anything else IMO is bogus. | How is Afton any different? We got a percentage of ticket sales, which is essentially equivalent to a percentage of the door. The venue provided the PA. Both the band and the venue advertised. We figured out the money stuff ahead of time.
Pay to play is where you have to pay to play. It's as simple as that. We paid nothing for our Afton show. Everyone we were in contact with from the agency was nice and reasonably professional. |
03-05-2009, 12:25 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Filthydelphia, USA | | Here's what I say to a club: You bring the the walk-ins. My band will hold them. At the end of the night you pay us your going rate. I don't see why that's unreasonable. I have too much respect for all my friends and relatives than to persuade them to buy tickets to see me play.
I think this pre-sales stuff works well when your peers are 25 and under but any older than that forget it. Unless they're like Mel on Flight of the Conchords that is.  |
03-05-2009, 12:32 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Old Hickory Lake, Nashville | | Quote:
Originally Posted by adamrobertt That's not what pay to play is, though. Pay to play is being forced to pay the venue for tickets not sold. |  Whaaat?
So if a venue gives you 100 $10 tix and you return 50 of them unsold you get $500.00 at the end of the night. Right? 'Cause if you don't, you just paid that sucka to play his club. AND brought in 50 drinkers...  Quote:
Originally Posted by adamrobertt Lots of venues/booking agencies use that sort of payscale for bands. If you don't bring out enough people, you can still play the show. You just won't get paid as much/at all. | Oh, thanks. We can play the show that we booked, advertised & brought people to? Holy rip!!!
What's the cut-off for not getting paid for the show? 15-25? Do you guys know the minimum ## beforehand?
AND then they pocket the x$10 per tic that did show up & tell us that we fell short & to play anyway? Are you kiddin' me?
Does anyone in the band wear boots? That club needs one firmly planted... 
Read Bongomania's post. That's how it works.
We might pay $100 for the house sound & light guys but that goes away if we bring our own. (Have to pay them too anyway.) Either the door is ours or a pre-agreed $$ amount is. In writing. The merch $$ is ours also unless it is a really big gig where the venue gets a cut. Good luck on trying to get out of that one. Buzzards...
But these details are all known beforehand NOT when we drag our butts back to the club an hr before showtime. There would be some serious ugliness going on. "Uh, ya'll are 8 tix short, you're gonna play for free tonight."
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It's a B. E. R. G. A. N.T. I. N. O.// Stay out of my freq kitchen. We're cookin' here!
Last edited by Intune : 03-05-2009 at 12:49 PM.
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03-05-2009, 12:35 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: San Diego, CA | | | I have always hated the idea of "pay to play", but I do understand that clubs need to make a buck... I don't mind the compromise of selling a small minimum number of tix to get on the stage for original/showcase music... but why anyone would need some 3rd party broker for this is beyond me unless that broker *really* supported the bands and made sure they were lined up with solid clubs.
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03-05-2009, 12:43 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cottage Grove, St. Paul suburb | | | There's one surefire way to know if the gig is pay to play or not. Are you giving the club cash? If the answer is yes, it is pay to play. See, that was simple, wasn't it? At a legitimate gig, the club gives YOU money. Once you think about it, it is easy to see the difference. |
03-05-2009, 12:51 PM
| | OVNIFX
EXAR pedals rep for North & Central America | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: PDX, OR | | | Hardly. Just as Intune pointed out above, maybe the club pays you $X, but you had to guarantee they got $X times two, plus drinkers, before you get paid. |
03-05-2009, 12:52 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Old Hickory Lake, Nashville | | Quote:
Originally Posted by adamrobertt How is Afton any different? We got a percentage of ticket sales, which is essentially equivalent to a percentage of the door. The venue provided the PA. Both the band and the venue advertised. We figured out the money stuff ahead of time.
Pay to play is where you have to pay to play. It's as simple as that. We paid nothing for our Afton show. Everyone we were in contact with from the agency was nice and reasonably professional. | What was the percentage you received for the ticket sales?
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