Ok so who should leave the band that I am in currently?

[petchimp123]

Currently I am in a band with me(bassist), two guitarists, and a drummer. I am close friends with both the guitarists and though I do not know the drummer very well, we get along just fine.

The problem is that one of the guitarist always makes 9/11 jokes and jokes about Middle Eastern people. He makes these jokes whenever one of my friends(not in the band) who we are hanging out with start talking about racist jokes.

So one day I just had it and I said something about the Holocaust(I won't mention what, it's not appropriate) since he is Jewish. I knew he would know how I would feel if I said it and now he won't even talk to me. I really don't care about him because he's basically saying "Screw you, it's ok if I make fun of you, but when you make fun of me, you have crossed the line."

People told me that joking about the Holocaust is bad and I'll admit it is, but isn't 9/11 also bad? It involved innocent lives lost just like the Holocaust. Anyways, that's not the point. Since he doesn't want to jam anymore with me, he's trying to get my kicked out of the band.

He's saying that he started the band and he has the power to kick me out. Techincally it was me who brought the lead guitarist into the band and the drummer. The lead guitarist and the drummer don't know about this yet, but they soon will.

Anyways... what should I do? Find a new guitarist asap, talk about this situation with the band, or just beat the shenanigans out of this guy?

[Step]

Im not getting this, are you middle eastern and therefore offended by his 9/11 jokes?

or just offended

[Joel S.]

You guys sound young.

Flat out, if it was a problem, you should have seriously pulled him aside and bluntly told him, "look, I understand you're just joking, but I find the jokes offensive, so out of respect could you please not make jokes like that?"

What should you do? You should act like an adult and talk to him honestly. IMO this is a rather silly reason for a band to break up, and one that can easily be resolved.

[flea claypool]

u should have kept your mouth shut...

people are different.. remember basically all ye share is music

[Bluesy Soul]

By telling Holocaust jokes or calling him out about his tasteless 9/11 and Middle Eastern jokes, you are criticizing his prejudice and poor taste. Not that he isn't deserving of it, but criticism is virtually always handled better privately than publicly.

Does one of you really need to leave the band? Try to get him to sit down privately and discuss the fact that his 9/11 and Middle Eastern jokes are offensive to you and to most others. See if you can agree to put a moratorium on Holocaust, 9/11, Middle Eastern and all other forms of ethnic humor and comment. He is more likely to be agreeable in a private meeting than if he is called out on it publicly and doesn't feel he can back down.

If he refuses to discuss it and/or to reach a reasonable compromise, take it to the entire band in a very calm, reasonable and thoughtful manner and let everyone decide who stays with whom. In the long run each player will decide for himself anyway, but it's better to avoid the stress, heartburn and intrigue of inner-band warfare.

Bluesy Soul

[mister-o]

Originally Posted by Joel S.

You should act like an adult and talk to him honestly.

QFT. You don't fight fire with fire when someone's identity or feelings are on the line and expect the flames to shrink.

[Araillac]

If you get kicked out, pee on his gear.

[debassr]

You should both quit.

[DaveF]

My answer is: No-one should leave the band.

Apologize to him like the big man you actually are, and tell him, straight up how his jokes made you feel!

Then rock mightily...

[bggeezer]

you both need to grow the f*ck up!

six of one and half a dozen of the other... I feel sorry for the other two members

[stflbn]

IMHO a big difference between 9/11 and the Holocaust. One was a terrorist attack, the other was a calculated and determined effort to exterminate entire races and religions.

He shouldn't be making jokes about 9/11 and you should be able to point out the fact that it offends you without insulting the heritage of millions of Jews who were slaughtered in the Holocaust.


And if you two are on different sides of race/religion related things what you're describing is exactly how hate crimes happen on either side of the issue, so I wouldn't get to cocky about things.

[bggeezer]

I agree with the above post...BUT

I'm Jewish and we prefer the term Jews or Jewish People rather than Hebrews. and its Holocaust not halocaust.

We haven't been called Hebrews since the diaspora was created, after the destruction of the 2nd temple by the Romans in 70ad. But I agree with the above post's sentiment.

Postscript: Very cool of stflbn to change the spellings, thx

[DudeistMonk]

Seriously?

Haven't you been on these forums enough/seen enough episodes of behind the music to know that bands always get ruined by really stupid crap like this?

After the elections I found out the way my drummer and his GF voted and I almost started an argument (I like to argue politics)...then I thought for 3 seconds...What could having this debate do to the 4 months of work I've put into this band? Then let the rhythm guitard we where auditioning and the drummer talk the politics for a minute, before I changed the topic.

As bassists its our job to keep the peace and think of whats best for the group both musically and socially.

[Turkeybasster]

Stop your squabbling or... someone will turn the car around and go strait home. I can imagine a confrontation being something like, "he said it first!" "no, I have more power, you suck!"

Go get a drink with him and talk it through. Even you have to drink cola...

[Craig_S]

I think the guitarist is a stupid bastard and needs his head slapped. I'm not Middle Eastern or Jewish and this crap pisses me off. There is nothing funny about any of it.

[oldrocker]

Originally Posted by Araillac

If you get kicked out, pee on his gear.

I'm sorry I LOLed.

[Stumbo]

Hey, freedom of speech goes both ways. No need to apologize for your remarks. You might have handled your frustration better (something to remember for the future) but the guitard's reaction to your comments is way out of line. Fortunately, he not the first to react that way and completely unoriginal in his justification for his actions. Imagine, an relative of those affected by the Holocaust spewing hate and prejudice towards others! How hypocritical.

Unfortunately , what you have there is a bigot. In full, unadulterated bloom. Unfettered by reason, logic, fair play or recognition of how deep seated hatreds have completely colored his view of the world. Fortunately, bigotry has been the subject of study for decades and there are many sources of information available on the topic.

Here are a few bits of information that may enlighten you:

Definitions of bigot on the Web:

* a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own
http://www.wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* One strongly loyal to one's own social group, and irrationally intolerant or disdainful of others
http://www.en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bigot

* Narrow minded or prejudice in your beliefs.
www.godonthe.net/dictionary/b.html

* Intolerant person: somebody who has very strong opinions, especially on matters of politics, religion, or ethnicity, and refuses to accept ...
www.creationism.co.uk/index.php/Main/Definitions

* A person obstinately and unreasonably wedded to a particular religious creed, opinion, or practice; a person blindly attached to an opinion ...
www.iyfradio.com/reference.htm

* Bigotry, as subject of psychology, is well documented since 1950 , especially as part of a "Authoritarian" personality.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Pnn...um=8&ct=result

(Note: see attachment for excerpt from the Handbook of Psychology)

Based on what I read, deep seated bigotry is part of the subconscious and not amenable to logical arguments being used to sway these deep seated beliefs.

IMO, having a drink and talking things over with the guitar player, while effective on reasonable people, will not work on someone who is blind to the roots of their own behavior.

IME, either he goes or you go. If you get him to calm down and you both stay, things will never be the same and it will only be a matter of time before he blows up at some minor thing and attempts to get you booted out or he leaves using something convenient as an excuse.

Good luck.

[awakefie]

Originally Posted by Araillac

If you get kicked out, pee on his gear.

It just won't go away... it just won't... the thread that haunts forever...

[Joe Murray]

I'm guessing your band doesn't cover any System Of A Down?

[bggeezer]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

Hey, freedom of speech goes both ways. No need to apologize for your remarks. You might have handled your frustration better (something to remember for the future) but the guitard's reaction to your comments is way out of line. Fortunately, he not the first to react that way and completely unoriginal in his justification for his actions. Imagine, an relative of those affected by the Holocaust spewing hate and prejudice towards others! How hypocritical.

Unfortunately , what you have there is a bigot. In full, unadulterated bloom. Unfettered by reason, logic, fair play or recognition of how deep seated hatreds have completely colored his view of the world. Fortunately, bigotry has been the subject of study for decades and there are many sources of information available on the topic.

Here are a few bits of information that may enlighten you:

Definitions of bigot on the Web:

* a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own
http://www.wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* One strongly loyal to one's own social group, and irrationally intolerant or disdainful of others
http://www.en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bigot

* Narrow minded or prejudice in your beliefs.
www.godonthe.net/dictionary/b.html

* Intolerant person: somebody who has very strong opinions, especially on matters of politics, religion, or ethnicity, and refuses to accept ...
www.creationism.co.uk/index.php/Main/Definitions

* A person obstinately and unreasonably wedded to a particular religious creed, opinion, or practice; a person blindly attached to an opinion ...
www.iyfradio.com/reference.htm

* Bigotry, as subject of psychology, is well documented since 1950 , especially as part of a "Authoritarian" personality.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Pnn...um=8&ct=result

(Note: see attachment for excerpt from the Handbook of Psychology)

Based on what I read, deep seated bigotry is part of the subconscious and not amenable to logical arguments being used to sway these deep seated beliefs.

IMO, having a drink and talking things over with the guitar player, while effective on reasonable people, will not work on someone who is blind to the roots of their own behavior.

IME, either he goes or you go. If you get him to calm down and you both stay, things will never be the same and it will only be a matter of time before he blows up at some minor thing and attempts to get you booted out or he leaves using something convenient as an excuse.

Good luck.

I don't think we've got the full story here, and I don't quite understand how you can so wholeheartedly support one bigot and not another... or do you have your own agenda?

This post should end NOW...it has nothing at all to do with music...the moderators need to pull their fingers out and delete this post.