Open letter from bar owner to musicians

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

I don't recall saying it had to.

You expressed concern about the approach you should/could take to help the venue owner sell more alcohol. I was only suggesting it can be done pretty painlessly.

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

I fully understand both. Not trying to dispute that or justify anything. I just have a slight difference of opinion, perhaps, as to how much the DIRECT peddling of alcohol should be on the band.

[electracoyote]

For those who buy into the fact that you are an employee of the venue owner and you have an obligation to help his business model succeed, the same as any other employee of the establishment, and so you see it can be done and constitute a bonfide win-win for your band and the owner...

It works! Open letter..... part 2

[SquierJazz72]

You expressed concern about the approach you should/could take to help the venue owner sell more alcohol. I was only suggesting it can be done pretty painlessly.

I get it. Didn't mean to sound like I was taking it personally.

My experiences(and I freely admitted a while back I've been out of that loop for a while), were slightly different. If I get back out there, I'll adjust to whatever the expectations are now. That's really not a problem for me.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

My experiences(and I freely admitted a while back I've been out of that loop for a while), were slightly different. If I get back out there, I'll adjust to whatever the expectations are now. That's really not a problem for me.

I hear you. My experiences were very different about this 30 years ago too. Namely, I was oblivious to how bar owners felt and the financial realities they faced every time they opened their doors. I'm not sure how much has changed, I would imagine a lot of club owners faced similar challenges back then as they do now.

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by Ric5

So these bar owners want us to spend years developing our craft as musicians and then invest in thousands of dollars of equipment, just so we can come in and be low paid liquor salesman ... dude really?!?! A better career path would be to simply drive a beer truck. The hours would be better and the pay would be better as well.

The bar owners POV is one way to look at it, he writes the check.

The audience POV is another though, they see you as entertainers and musicians and technically they write the bar owners check.

[Hilton Marsh]

In Australia you dont tip the bar staff unless you are concerned the weight of the change in coins will pull your pants down to the floor. Having said that, some people do tip but it is unexpected for the most part. I spent three and a half years playing in a very successful show that was too loud, too obnoxious, too demanding on staff and too much trouble at times. It was great. We only worried about us and what we could get from the venue and the audience. Rebookings were plentiful and we were a nuisance most of the time. That was 10 years ago. Oh how times have changed. Now I would happily and with much fan fare walk out of a venue if the band was too loud or they had not taken the time of day to shower before hand.

[SquierJazz72]

Perhaps it was a peculiarity of my area, or a sign of different times 20-30 years ago, but for me(and the other bands I knew) promotion of alcohol just wasn't an issue as much. We just had to keep people there and happy. After all, a happy crowd is a drinking crowd. The owners rarely had trouble promoting and selling their product themselves

If that particular opinion of mine is outdated, I'm certainly willing to reconsider.

But the rest I agreed with up front 100%. Those of us who worked most were not the always the best, technically. It came down to charisma and people skills. Not just playing the right music, but interacting and working the crowd. And professionalism NEVER hurts.

There were a couple of bands trying to be technical perfectionists and pretty much ignoring the fact that they even had an audience. They didn't work much.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

It came down to charisma and people skills. Not just playing the right music, but interacting and working the crowd.

You're nearly quoting me now. I wasn't being facetious when I said

Originally Posted by electracoyote

if your immense charisma and musical skills don't do the trick, and not much alcohol moves across the bar

There are a couple of bands like that here in the Denver-Metro area. I caught a couple sets by Moses Jones Saturday night, one of the best dance bands in the area. I doubt they have to say much about alcohol or the bar other than the "tip your wait staff" line. Everyone in the packed room had a drink in hand, and the bar and wait staff were really hopping.

If you're in one of those bands that has that kind of built-in charisma and can hold the crowd all night long, good on ya, mate. No alcohol peddling required (other than keeping people present, dancing, and thirsty).

But Moses Jones, with their airtight 4-horn two girl backup hit-after-hit presentation, is a rare exception. In reality, most of us could use all the help we can get to enamor ourselves not only to the audience, but to the owner and wait staff as well, and get the edge on our competition.

The "open letter" in the OP is a sure-fire way.

[SquierJazz72]

Perhaps the reverse is also true now, and the owners also need all the help they can get. I'm open to that, it's just not what I was used to back then. Again, though, maybe it was more my area. Small places. Lumber and mill economy. Everybody was hard working and(on the weekends) hard drinking. All we had to do at the time, was keep them there.

[TRichardsbass]

I think to say you are there to peddle booze is a little off. What the letter really said is that he runs a business to sell booze and food, and if he hires you its to help him do that. Meaning to tell the bands its all about him, its not about you. A point 99% of the bands miss.

If you are the best you can be, put in some effort and do what it takes to keep them dancing and keep them in the bar, you have done what he needs. And as a band, you have done what you need. If you cant keep them around to listen to you or have fun, they arent going to be your fans. You want fans. If you have fans it guarantees everyone wins.

Help the owner make decent bank and you will always have a decent gig. And if you do that you are building a fan base too.

[MarkMgibson]

I draw the line at announcing drink specials; I just refuse to do it. That's something relatively new, but I just don't think it's my job. I just hand the mic to the bar guy and he can give the spiel, but it annoys the hell out of me when it happens in the middle of a set. Thankfully, it only happens at 2 places I play at (managed by the same guy).

[elbeau]

Its not my job to sell booze. You want to sell booze, you make anouncements between sets. Have drink specials and make it accessable. As an oi! band, we have plenty of subliminal drinking songs and if you as the patron can't figure out you're thirsty, its not my fault. Prop a few bottles up on stage and let the music sell it for ya. How many people drank PBR 10+ years back? People saw it on the cabs and riser but didn't know that was the free band beer or cheap beer of the nite but wanted to be like the band.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

Not to mention the 10-25% that bartenders and staff give away or pocket the money from...

Bingo.

In the various areas I've played over the last 25 years (West Michigan, SE Michigan, Portland Oregon) I've seen one all too common trait among bar owners.

It isn't every one, but it's frighteningly statistically significant number.

Complete and utter lack of any knowledge of running a business and complete and utter lack of any professionalism.

Return phone calls? Be sober? Etc. Etc.

There is a reason that bars fail at such a high rate - and it mostly has to do with the business skills and acumen of the folks that decide to run/own 'em.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by aborgman

Bingo.

In the various areas I've played over the last 25 years (West Michigan, SE Michigan, Portland Oregon) I've seen one all too common trait among bar owners.

It isn't every one, but it's frighteningly statistically significant number.

Complete and utter lack of any knowledge of running a business and complete and utter lack of any professionalism.

Return phone calls? Be sober? Etc. Etc.

There is a reason that bars fail at such a high rate - and it mostly has to do with the business skills and acumen of the folks that decide to run/own 'em.

That's true here too. I get sick of bands getting blamed, when actually the management is hopeless. It's become much more common these days as corporations own large hotel chains, and they hire monkeys to run the places.
Twenty years ago, those same places were owned by the people who ran them, and they were managed so much better because the owners lived or died by their decisions.

[ChrisB2]

I don't understand the "I don't sell drinks, it's not my job" attitude. What's the harm in making an announcement every so often, if it helps the bar? Help the bar, help the bar owner, help yourself. Pretty simple formula IMO.

Anyone care to expound on exactly why you're so against announcing drink specials?

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

I don't understand the "I don't sell drinks, it's not my job" attitude. What's the harm in making an announcement every so often, if it helps the bar? Help the bar, help the bar owner, help yourself. Pretty simple formula IMO.

Anyone care to expound on exactly why you're so against announcing drink specials?

I agree Chris, if that's what it takes, it's something the band should be willing to do. It's not always necessary, but sometimes it is. Blaming poor management for your unwillingness to make a simple announcement is pretty lame IMO.

But we've now reached that crossroad that this type of thread always gets to eventually, distinguishing the different types of mentalities in performing musicians.

I think Tom said it best:

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

What the letter really said is that he runs a business to sell booze and food, and if he hires you its to help him do that. Meaning to tell the bands its all about him, its not about you. A point 99% of the bands miss.

Help the owner make decent bank and you will always have a decent gig. And if you do that you are building a fan base too.

A lot of musicians just won't buy into the bolded part, or even play the game. It's just that simple.

[SquierJazz72]

My objection isn't a strenuous one, just based on past experience. I am willing to be flexible, myself.

However, I still think entertainment is the bands primary purpose and any other expectations should, perhaps, be worked out in advance. In fact, maybe that's where it sometimes breaks down. Lack of upfront communication and agreed upon expectations and obligations, on both sides.

In the end, I'll consider whatever makes the owner happy, within reasonable limits. After all, it is in my own best interest that the bar have a good night. If I can help that happen, in whatever ways are agreed upon, why not?

[Big Brother]

I can't fathom someone not understanding that a bar hires bands to encourage the consumption of alcohol.

The other head scratcher is pointing out that you have $xK worth of equipment and have been learning the craft for some odd years. The bar owner spent $250K+ and probably many more years learning and perfecting the art of business to one day open that club and build a stage.

It is a symbiotic relationship but the reality is that bars can exist without bands better than bands exist without bars. Bands that forget this get replaced by DJ Dubstep or Karaoke Kevin.

This thread should be common sense, not great advice!

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

The bar owner spent $250K+

Probably, if not more depending on state.

Originally Posted by Big Brother

and probably many more years learning and perfecting the art of business to one day open that club and build a stage.

Hahahahhahhhahhahha.... Let me stop laughing... and wipe the tears from my eyes.

The average bar owner has probably spent 2-3 minutes acquiring their business acumen, and managed to completely drink it away years ago.

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by aborgman

Probably, if not more depending on state.



Hahahahhahhhahhahha.... Let me stop laughing... and wipe the tears from my eyes.

The average bar owner has probably spent 2-3 minutes acquiring their business acumen, and managed to completely drink it away years ago.

When you are done laughing, where did the money come from to open the club? Da bank? Because they give money to anyone who asks?

$250K is just the club investment, the liquor license is more like a huge deposit to keep you in line and not sell drinks to 13 year olds. You get that back when you sell, assuming you didn't lose it.

But, you still need to come up with a cool 750K or so to acquire one. Not chump change, not amateur businessman chance, not something that you are going to get a loan for with no proven background.

Perfect example. There is a small, struggling bar here in SD that constantly advertises for bands in CL, doesn't pay them, is barely making money and staying afloat. Another idiot businessman with '3 minutes of experience,' right?

This bar is run by a guy who also operates the towns most successful beach rental and it is widely known to anyone who visits SD. He also runs a chain of jewelry stores in town and is widely respected here. SD members know exactly who I am talking about.

He worked 30 years to learn business and sunk over a million bucks into that dive bar because he likes live music and wanted to create a venue for local bands to play. What an a-hole!