Open letter from bar owner to musicians

[ACalbass]

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

If you are in a wedding band or orchestra, are you making art? Just had to say it.

Wedding bands are paid. To be entertainment. To play what the couple want to hear so their guests and they have a good time. So what do you play, "Shout" or "el Becko" by Jeff Beck? How about "Riders on the Storm"?

Same thing, only you aren't shilling booze. You are not there to be the center of attention. That is the bride and groom. You are not there for your "artistic integrity." You are there to get them dancing and remind them when it's time to cut the cake.

I won't argue that lots of things are upside down down under but no one I know forms a cover band to display their artistic guitar virtuosity. Pretty much all of us do it for $$$$$, booze and babes, not necessarily in that order. So to refuse to do a little advertising for the bar is disingenuous.

The club owner laid it out great. Choose to ignore it at your own risk.

Of course they form cover bands that are into other stuff,or there were not those that play YES,or RUSH,or Pink Floyd,the list is endless.
Nothing wrong with advertising,the problem is when EVERYTHING you do is based on what bar owners want.
If everything were this way,new music would have no outlet,simply because bar owners would not want you to play risky music.
And BECAUSE bar owners want it to be done this way,the bar scene everywhere is DEAD,meaning you can only aspire to make $100 per weekend.
THAT is what bar owners agree dead on,and lay it down to you.

Music is dying because music production is engaged in making money.
People that dedicate their life to write classical or other genres that can't help beer sales are doomed.
That is what the letter posted is saying,ultimately.
Few years from now,serious music study will be useless.

Not against the bar scene,that's part of my work too,but not agreeing with bar owners mentality.

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by Ric5

Open letter to Bar owners from me

Dude ...

I don't get up in the morning to help you sell alcohol to people with drinking problems. I have no interest in helping you put more drunk drivers out on the streets to kill and cripple innocent people. If you have no interset in paying a fair wage to my band then see ya ... I'm outta here!

PS ... your bathroom is really filthy

So if he pays you a fair wage, then you don't mind your complicity in killing and crippling innocent people?

Or does that only happen when you DON'T get paid?

Don't forget a handful of peanuts for the ride home.

[JohnMCA72]

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

So... you're saying that the Bass is the best way to get to the "sweet spot"...?

Um, those callouses on your fingertips can be good for something else...

[SquierJazz72]

It's hilarious how some people are using this as an opportunity to rail against the evils of alcohol.

That would be silly. I believe even I admitted a band in a bar is still indirectly promoting the drinking and sale of alcohol, just by being there as the entertainment.

And I'm really not trying to be obtuse about the rest of it. Just trying to understand when and where things changed along the way.

I admit that my band was one of the younger and less experienced bands, so we didn't get the same gigs the older, more experienced bands did. But I did pay attention to what worked for them at the time, and it was like I described. The bands didn't really promote the sales directly, but did leave open time for the owner or bartender to take the mic and promote whatever they wanted. And they took the opporotunity during band breaks as well, for the same. Seemed to work for everyone involved.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

If you are copying other peoples' music you are not an artist, I don't give a damn how good of a musician you are in reality or in your own mind. And if you try to put on airs and portend to be an artist, you're only going to have people chuckling at you behind your back, or perhaps to your face, like I am right now.

Well, let's see. How many performing artists wrote the material they perform? Think about opera, symphonies, dance troupes, actors, pop singers ... why are not cover band players in that crowd?

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by Kryptos

Dry county here. We have noticed at square dances a lot of folks running out to the car for a minute.

I can hear it now - "OK, we're going to do a ballad here, so it's be a good time to go out and check on your car!"

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

So if he pays you a fair wage, then you don't mind your complicity in killing and crippling innocent people?

Or does that only happen when you DON'T get paid?

Don't forget a handful of peanuts for the ride home.

I don't like bars ... I don't like being there ... and I especially don't like bar owners ... they seem to be a couple steps down the ladder from crooked car salesmen. I also do not like being around drunks at all.

I would rather play some place where no one goes home drunk, but I suppose drunks will be drunks ...

Unfortunately most of us end up playing bars. I must admit I feel "soiled" after spending time at such a place, especially when I use their filthy restroom.

This thread reminds me of my favorite quote ...

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by Ric5

I don't like bars ... I don't like being there ... and I especially don't like bar owners ... they seem to be a couple steps down the ladder from crooked car salesmen. I also do not like being around drunks at all.

I would rather play some place where no one goes home drunk, but I suppose drunks will be drunks ...

Unfortunately most of us end up playing bars. I must admit I feel "soiled" after spending time at such a place, especially when I use their filthy restroom.

This thread reminds me of my favorite quote ...

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."

The quote is usually attributed to Hunter S. Thompson. The actual quote is, "The TV business is uglier than most things. It is normally perceived as some kind of cruel and shallow money trench through the heart of the journalism industry, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs, for no good reason. Which is more or less true. For the most part, they are dirty little animals with huge brains and no pulse."

It's from his book Generation of Swine: Tales of Shame and Degradation in the '80s (New York: Summit Books, 1988). He didn't write the bit about there also being a negative side.

From David Emery, About.com Guide.

[MarkMgibson]

It's funny, I'm a smoker, and in this country you can't smoke inside any bar.
Smokers are banished to some dingy outside area, usually in the most horrible place. Yet people don't die because they smoked too much and drove a car into a tree. Nor do they beat up their wives because they've had too many cigarettes.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't advertise specials on smokes, but neither will I do it for alcohol. The bar is perfectly able to do it themselves, and I refuse to bend over and become a lackey - that's not why I was hired. Besides that, it's not very Rock & Roll either: sucking up to the establishment. It doesn't matter that they hired us, we don't have to do every poxy thing they say. Do if it you like, but not me - no f*93ing way.

[TRichardsbass]

A poster just said "its a problem when EVERYTHING is what the bar owner wants..."

The minute you take money for services, it IS everything they want. When you are paying the bill or you are doing it for free then you get some say. Want it your way? Have shows in your basement.

[Nashrakh]

So it's all about power in the form of $$ bills, good to know exploitation doesn't need to be camouflaged anymore.

Don't want to do what the guy with the money says? Good luck trying to get by. The commodification of labor power exists for a reason but not one a lot of people like to admit to themselves. Whether you quit doing bars and going back to your day job, it's more of the same. In choosing gigs you have at least some choice, i'll give you that. But in the big picture that hardly alleviates the power asymmetry in employment relations in general.

[rtslinger]

Yup I agree with the article as well it is knowledge that keeps you in clubs rotation for years. Good advise if bars and club scene is where you want to make your music.

[Steve Dallman]

I started out in college as an art major. When the head of the department was asked "What is art?" His response was, "Art is what artists do."

In northern WI, bars get less business overall for many reasons. Changing the drinking age from 18 to 21 was a big one. Drunk driving laws are more aggressively enforced, and penalties are very expensive. For bands there has been ups and downs. The drinking age change hurt. In the 70's Disco caused a big loss in venues. Today it's kareoke and DJ's. Like me, many have simply quit drinking which makes people like me no longer assets to bars, unless we are designated drivers for drinkers. The original letter is spot on. The decision for a bar to hire bands IS a business decision, and we had better be worth our employment there. If the bar loses money due to us, there is no reason to hire us. If we do not bring in enough money to pay for us plus make a decent profit, our employment there will be very limited. I don't like the reality that we are "booze salesmen" but it is the truth. I think for most of us, we do our thing and entertain, the bartenders do their thing, and sell drinks, and hopefully, it all works out well for the band, the bar, and the patrons. I might rethink some aspects of this business, and may stop turning down patrons who offer to buy me a drink.

[jumblemind]

Originally Posted by REMBO

one thing that people are missing:
in order for people to spend money in bars....they need a job with great pay!!
lots of bands are trying! as are the club owners...but, in truth, in a great economy....people will spend their money on fun nights out!
a lot of people are hurting right now....

Yep, it's not A or B. It's a complex sealed system with lots of moving parts that affect each other.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

That would be silly. I believe even I admitted a band in a bar is still indirectly promoting the drinking and sale of alcohol, just by being there as the entertainment.

Well, to begin, I wasn't referring specifically to you, so don't take it so hard. Secondly, there are people on this thread stating "I'm not going to contribute to the delinquency of an alcoholic and their ruination." Which is just beyond silly given the context of this conversation.

I admit that my band was one of the younger and less experienced bands, so we didn't get the same gigs the older, more experienced bands did. But I did pay attention to what worked for them at the time, and it was like I described. The bands didn't really promote the sales directly, but did leave open time for the owner or bartender to take the mic and promote whatever they wanted. And they took the opporotunity during band breaks as well, for the same. Seemed to work for everyone involved.

This also must be a regional thing. In the various large markets I've played in the US, the band is expected to do light MC duties for the bar owners and his staff. Refusal to do so usually gets you on his black list.

[derrico1]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

that's not why I was hired. Besides that, it's not very Rock & Roll either

Worrying about what's rock & roll isn't very rock & roll.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

A poster just said "its a problem when EVERYTHING is what the bar owner wants..."

The minute you take money for services, it IS everything they want. When you are paying the bill or you are doing it for free then you get some say. Want it your way? Have shows in your basement.

I wholeheartedly disagree. You get what you pay for.
If I take my car in and pay for an oil change, I don't expect them to replace my brakes as well. If I pay a doctor for a check up, I don't expect them to do open heart surgery on me. If someone brings a bass to me to get repaired, I don't give them a free bass just because they asked for it and paid for a set up.

Although I strongly believe in going the extra mile for a customer, if taken to the extreme, you can have some pretty egregious behavior toward musicians. I know a female singer that was harrassed by a club owner for weeks because he thought he should be able to sleep with her because he hired her for his A room. I had a club owner try to short change me because of fight that broke out in the bar and cleared the place out during one of our slow tunes. I did a last minute fill-in gig for an agency with 24 hour notice, and had the club owner complain because we didn't draw.

To me, one of the main issues is that often neither party spells out what is expected and what they are paying for. You don't see this happening in many other businesses other than music.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Well, let's see. How many performing artists wrote the material they perform? Think about opera, symphonies, dance troupes, actors, pop singers ... why are not cover band players in that crowd?

We have different definitions of "art" and "artist." I don't think I would necessarily catagorize an actor as an "artist." An "artist" creates "art," an "actor" is simply the entertainment vehicle that puts the "art" across.

In the music world, there are "artists" who create, and most cover bands are simply entertainers copying the art and putting it across, more like "actors."

Purely semantic and subjective, I don't think I'll waste another key stroke addressing it. A cover band certainly is not executing some higher form of original expression even close to the level they would need to get so puffed up they don't want to take a few extra steps to help the bar owner succeed. And that applies not only to light MC duties, but to the various other aspects of professionalism pointed out in the open letter.

[jumblemind]

I am also enjoying the conversation about art. I feel like Hennessy Youngman should be referenced for more exposition on the topic. Very appropriate for this context.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkSG9wrFPCQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVFasyCvEOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yea4qSJMx4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcBwUL6Y3UA

[BIG97BEN]

Well it's not rocket science. If you think bars are morally corrupt then don't take gigs playing them. As a bass player and someone who used to manage bars, more gigs for us and less people for bar managers to deal with to make them stereotype all of us.