Open letter from bar owner to musicians

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by bigsnaketex

But the bottom line is that all bars are in it to make money and they use the loyal followers of bands to draw in customers to buy drinks and food.

Bingo.

And this whole discussion about "art," try that with the typical bar owner, see how far you get. Not very. He couldn't care less what fancy label you have for your remarkably incredibly unique and superior version of "Sweet Home Alabama."

His main concern: Does it move alcohol across the bar?

[pedro]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

I never said they weren't talented entertainers with much to offer an audience.

I never suggested you did. Still I think you might have an argument from many in placing virtuoso in the classical/jazz field on the same plane as a bar band simply because they don't compose their own material.

[Disaster Area]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Bingo.

And this whole discussion about "art," try that with the typical bar owner, see how far you get. Not very. He couldn't care less what fancy label you have for your remarkably incredibly unique and superior version of "Sweet Home Alabama."

His main concern: Does it move alcohol across the bar?

I agree with that sentiment entirely. I was simply addressing your definition of what does and does not constitute "art".

EDIT: And don't talk *#$! about my amazing "Sweet Home Alabama" cover.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by Disaster Area

I agree with that sentiment entirely. I was simply addressing your definition of what does and does not constitute "art".

Well, I tried to say this earlier, I'm probably not being direct enough.

So let me try again.

From a bar owner's perspective, who gives a dump what you call it.

If it makes anyone feel better to be called an artist, have at it. I have nothing to prove or gain by convincing anyone what does and does not constitute art. In terms of getting gigs and staying on the bar owner's rotation, I share his feelings about it.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

You always have the choice of determining if a bar owner is worth your time and effort. That's a perfectly acceptable and understandable business model. If they are as retched as you seem to think, why bother? If I took that dim of a view of barkeeps, I'd avoid them and find some other way to get my yah yahs out musically. Otherwise, you just sound like a whiner or a hypocrite.

The situation is what it is.

I'm willing to work with crappy bar owners because that is the opportunity that is available to me - but I'm not going to pretend like the average bar owner is Warren Buffet.

[SquierJazz72]

Well, to begin, I wasn't referring specifically to you, so don't take it so hard. Secondly, there are people on this thread stating "I'm not going to contribute to the delinquency of an alcoholic and their ruination." Which is just beyond silly given the context of this conversation.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that anyone was referring to me, merely saying that despite my arguments, there's no denying the rest of the point about bands and alcohol in bars. There's no denying that we contribute, one way or the other.

As to the rest, perhaps it was regional, local to my area or specific to most of the owners I knew. Most of them were pretty hands on, and wouldn't shy away from doing their own announcements. Maybe it was different in other places.

And, of course, if I go looking for bar gigs now, I'll at least consider whatever adaptations may be needed, if I decide I want those gigs.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

I'm certain Tom means "everything within reason." Comments about bar owners being slave masters and raping the lead singer are just, again, ridiculous. Tom meant nothing of the sort. C'mon people.

Of course not, but that's what happens when members try to turn grey issues into black and white ones

[El Beardo]

As a musician you must decide what is more important to you. Is it pleasing your audience? or Is it expressing yourself through your music? A venue owner is more likely a business man than a music enthusiast. If booking the originals band brought in more money I'm sure that's who would get booked. I'm not saying original bands are a waste or that they belong only in run down dive bars. I just think most other people want to go dance, drink and hear a bunch of their favorite songs with some friends. I constantly talk to gigging musician friends and hear them complaining about venue owners and even musicians in cover bands as if it's their fault.(I was in a coverband for years while most my friends were in original bands) If you want to be angry at someone aim it at the patrons. Their the ones that the music business is reacting to. There's no point in getting upset with venue owners and other musicians for recognizing it.

[TRichardsbass]

No, I pretty much meant EVERYTHING. Of course, nothing illegal or immoral, but if the bar owner is paying you and tells you to announce that someone lost their wallet, you do it. If he asks you to stop while the Giants attempt that last minute field go with .03 to go, you do it. He is paying you. He who has the gold, makes the rules. He has the gold.

I laugh because here I am in the epitome of the worlds greatest cover band scene. ALL of the biggest cover bands in this area, and two recognized by MTV as great, have played or still play here. The Stone Pony, whichis automatically associated with Bruce Springsteen, got that way because of a cover band called Cats on a Smooth Surface. The Stone Pony opened up two years AFTER Springsteen got signed and had his second album out. The Stone Pony languished until the cover band scene lit it up, around 1978. And Springsteen would go to see Cats play, and get on stage with them. Which is how it became connected with him. I am pretty sure that Bruce himself has only played I think two shows ever there, maybe just one.

My point is that Cats, while one of the most talented cover bands ever, never was the best band musically, never the most polished, and not even the most popular. But they made sure they always played the hits, learned a new one or two a week along with the pop charts. They often would yell out drink specials, and also they ALWAYS were in costume. Which for them was usually the typical '80s Don Johnson look. Never T shirt and jeans, never like a slob. Like a band. Like Cats. Actually, if you wanted to be successful in those days, you needed the look and the costume.

All of those guys have been making great money in cover bands, and have been playing the A rooms since the early '70s. Several of them also tour with bands, like Bobby Bandiera with Bon Jovi and Fran Smith with the Hooters.

Look, there will always be bar owners who suck. And most of them have no clue about running an alcohol sales based business. But that doesnt matter. If I work with them, and help them, I will get better treatment, better gigs, and better pay, and with any luck keep him in business so I can continue to play music and get paid for it.

I know three bars in my town who will gladly let you play for free. And they won't tell you what to play at any time. But if the crowd leaves, or you have zero draw, even though you will play for free, you aren't coming back. Think about that. You can play for free, and you won't get to play there again, even though you didn't really cost him anything. Because if he doesn't sell food and booze, he doesn't exist. They will take risks, but you don't get weeks to prove you are even worthy to be in their places.

I played with an acoustic blues duo in one of them late in November. The bar owner and bartenders loved the music. The night started with a full dinner crowd, and by the middle of the second set the bar had nearly emptied. He thanked us, but said he probably wouldn't be booking the duo again.

As far as "art", I didn't start the argument, but I have strong feelings about it in context to the Open Letter that was written. When it comes down to it, think of yourself as a commissioned artist. Leonardo Da Vinci made a life of commissioned gigs. He painted a lot of portraits that still hang in castles somewhere. Yes they were his art, but for him it just payed the bills. It funded his invention habit.

So, think of your gig at a bar as being commissioned to "make art selling beer through music." That should help. You can be an artist, just a commissioned artist. Instead of painting a landscape or some image you want to, you have to paint his ugly daughter's face. And you have to pretend to enjoy it. Oh, and he gets to tell you that he thinks the portrait makes his daughter not as attractive as she is, so he gets to tell you to paint it again.

Either way, I am glad that some here have read the letter and listened to what has been posted and are taking it to heart. I am glad they are also getting gigs and for some better pay.

[SquierJazz72]

When it comes to cover vs original, I guess it will depend partly on what kind of original music the band does, and how open the owner is to it.

Since most bar and club people want to party and dance, a band who's original music has a lot in common with that style of music probably has a better chance of trying to sell themselves than a Rush style band.

If your music matches the venue, the odds are a little better in your favor, as long as you can sell it and prove it in the end.

Let's face it, you don't hire the Rush type band if you know your place draws an AC/DC kind of crowd.

[ksandvik]

I know of some musicians that are actually bar owners. They tend to be very conservative, mostly have karaoke and a possible open jam at slow nights.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by aborgman

The situation is what it is.

I'm willing to work with crappy bar owners because that is the opportunity that is available to me - but I'm not going to pretend like the average bar owner is Warren Buffet.

I don't hear anyone on this thread making such a claim seriously. The rational voices are saying the same thing: The average bar owner is trying to keep his head above water, he hopes that his employees (including his entertainment) can help him achieve that goal. If he has suggestions to that affect, he's worth listening to, even if you don't respect him or his business acumen. You're still working for him, and critiqueing him is pointless.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

As to the rest, perhaps it was regional, local to my area or specific to most of the owners I knew. Most of them were pretty hands on, and wouldn't shy away from doing their own announcements. Maybe it was different in other places.

Yeah, it must be regional. Just this past Saturday I was at one of the most hoppin' and coveted clubs on the south end of Denver, with one of the most popular cover dance bands. Bar owner walks up to the band in the middle of the set, hands a set of car keys to the lead singer, whispers in his ear, and walks away. Lead singer proceeds to make the announcement they found a set of keys. This is routine and expected in the Denver Metro area clubs I play and visit. To put on airs and refuse to help the bar owner and his staff would be the kiss of death in that club. Knowing this particular bar owner as I do, he would have taken serious offense at a refusal to do a little light duty MC'ing.

And, of course, if I go looking for bar gigs now, I'll at least consider whatever adaptations may be needed, if I decide I want those gigs.

The voice of reason. Well said.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

I don't hear anyone on this thread making such a claim seriously. The rational voices are saying the same thing: The average bar owner is trying to keep his head above water, he hopes that his employees (including his entertainment) can help him achieve that goal. If he has suggestions to that affect, he's worth listening to, even if you don't respect him or his business acumen. You're still working for him, and critiqueing him is pointless.

Yea I quite agree with you.

[Edward G.]

It's ALL about the sale, y'all. The more enthusiastically and successfully you help a club sell liquor, the better your relationship with said club will be. If you treat it like a chore that you are forced to do, you will always be sniffing the draft of the lead dogs who do it with style and gusto.

[SquierJazz72]

The voice of reason. Well said.

Like I said a while back, I'm not that stubborn or stupid. I guess I kept picking at it just to understand where now and then changed. Maybe it was regional, maybe just a sign of different times. Either way, it is what it is. I'll adapt if I need to. So I'm at peace on point one.

I never objected to light MC duties, and that WAS always something most bands I knew did do, regardless of who was promoting the booze itself.

The rest I agreed with right off. The bands doing the most gigs were the well presented, professional ones. And they weren't always the best, technically. But they knew how to be entertaining, carry the night, and keep a captive audience, so to speak. Again, regardless of who promotes the booze, the audience has to be happy to stay, otherwise, nothing else matters.

A couple bands tried to be technical wizards, but really lacked the rest, and did seem to care about only gratifying themselves. They didn't work much, and that was a fact. My area was small, and consisted of several towns within few miles of each other, so if a given band at a given bar was lame or unappealing, people just moved on to the next bar or even town, looking for a better band. Nobody started drinking much until they were at a bar they actually wanted to stay at.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

I never objected to light MC duties, and that WAS always something most bands I knew did do, regardless of who was promoting the booze itself.

I think that letter was great for anyone wondering (1) Why they aren't getting booked as much as they like and (2) wanting to get booked more and (3) willing to make the adult good business move and actually TALK to a bar owner and ASK questions like "how can we increase our odds with you?"

If you don't have those issues or you're unwilling to do business that way, the suggestions on this thread are lost on you. Not judging you, just saying, not all advice is right for all people.

And if and when you talk with the bar owner, ask him what you can do on stage to help him have a successful evening. Ask him, if you help him sell more alcohol, will that help? Is he concerned about appearance? Is there anything else his top bands do that he wishes all bands would do that would help him meet his goals. Let him tell you.

Then decide if you can live with that. If not, move along, this is not the bar for you.

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Lead singer proceeds to make the announcement they found a set of keys.

What?!? Why, that shill! Stooge! Huckster! That sell-out! Making a fool of himself, compromising his ART!!

/sarcasm

[SquierJazz72]

I think that letter was great for anyone wondering (1) Why they aren't getting booked as much as they like and (2) wanting to get booked more and (3) willing to make the adult good business move and actually TALK to a bar owner and ASK questions like "how can we increase our odds with you?"

I agree. Also goes back to something I said amidst all my other babbling And it's been mentioned more recently too.

Expectations, obligations, and working them out before hand. I think that's where it breaks down sometimes. If some things aren't worked out up front, so that both sides know what's expected of them, it's asking for trouble if either side, or both, is perceived as failing on their end. Hard feelings can be hard to erase, once they happen.

And if you can think to ask the right questions up front and be interested in helping them, it's in your best interest, as long as you are happy with the arrangement too. It's really only symbiotic if both sides benefit and come away satisfied.

[Tx Basser]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

I think that letter was great for anyone wondering (1) Why they aren't getting booked as much as they like and (2) wanting to get booked more and (3) willing to make the adult good business move and actually TALK to a bar owner and ASK questions like "how can we increase our odds with you?"

If you don't have those issues or you're unwilling to do business that way, the suggestions on this thread are lost on you. Not judging you, just saying, not all advice is right for all people.

And if and when you talk with the bar owner, ask him what you can do on stage to help him have a successful evening. Ask him, if you help him sell more alcohol, will that help? Is he concerned about appearance? Is there anything else his top bands do that he wishes all bands would do that would help him meet his goals. Let him tell you.

Then decide if you can live with that. If not, move along, this is not the bar for you.

Very well said coyote. I have experience from both sides of the bar. I managed a bar for a few years where live music was played 4 nights a week and I have been a musician most of my life, albeit part time picker with a full time day job. There are MANY great responses to the Bar Owners "letter" that began this thread.

One thing our band always does at any venue is to introduce ourselves to the owner (if they are available) and/or the manager and/or bartender....whomever is in charge. We want to have a relationship with them. We ask them "Is there any type "drink special" we can announce tonight or anything you want us to "push" from the stage?"
Many times they will tell us they need to push "Margarita's because they are over-stocked on tequila" or bourbon and water....etc. And they will actually have a special price for that night.
We approach gigs as if we are part of the staff for that night. We are on the same team as them. After all, we are getting paid to work that night. We always look professional and when the gig is over, we leave the stage area cleaner than it was when we got there. (As a former bar manager, it always pizzed me off when a band left the stage trashed! Clean up after yourselves, the stage isn't your living room!) Little things do get noticed by bar owners/managers.
Bar owners/managers want to have a good working relationship with bands and a little respect from you to them usually gets the same in return. Treat bar owners how you want to be treated. Our formula works for us and we stay gig busy and play a lot of return jobs on a rotation basis.
My apologies for the long read. Just my .02.