Open letter from bar owner to musicians

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

I'd tell him to go to **** himself.

Then your either new to the local bar business, your band has more bookings than you know what to do with or you and every member of your band is not in this for the money.

Blue

[rockinrayduke]

Originally Posted by BawanaRik

Of course none of us drank before it was legal.

Absolutely not!! <hic>

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Would you play the game?

For me, it's a no-brainer. I love playing live music for appreciative audiences and club owners far too much to be deterred by the expectation of a little light MC duty or the suggestion that I should save my cargo shorts for the beach.

Yes, I play the game every weekend and I love it. It's like going to work and there are rules.

You either play by the rules or find a job that's a better fit for you.

We are there to make that register behind the bar ring consistently for 4 hours and in any way we can make life easy for the owner and the staff.

Even when you think I'm doing my thing on bass I always have an eye on what's going on behind the bar.

When we take that first 15 minute break the first thing I will ask any of the band members;

" Did you see if the bar is doing decent business? "

I don't drink alcohol ( not for the last 40 plus years) so even when that bartender says my lemonade or cranberry juice
( you should never drink anything carbonated during a performance) is on the house, I'll leave a fiver on the bar for her. It's just the right thing to do.

I learned a lot about the protocol of the circuit we play over the last year.

Blue

[Low Sound Love]

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

Low Sound, what exactly is it you "are trying to do?" That is the club owners point. Its not about what you are trying to do, its about what he needs you to do.

The minute you think its about you you miss his point.

I can see how that is the case in your situation, but I believe it to be different from my own.

To answer your question first, as far as the question wasn't hypothetical: What we try to do is put on an intense 45-50 minutes rock show. With the least amount of in-between banter possible, because that would break the atmosphere we try to create.

I do understand what you're getting at though, but I think the situation here (or at least my situation, and the situation for 90% of the original rock bands) is different on more than one point. I'll just try to list a few.

First of all: As I stated before: cover bands are not as popular here as they seem to be at your side of the big pond. A bar or youth centre may have a coverband once in a while, and there are a handful op popular tribute bands, but the majority of gigs are for original bands.

Then: the duration of a gig. A local band will never play longer than 1,5 hours. Most will finish in somwhere around the 50' mark. There are no 'multiple sets' gigs. Ever.

Another one: there are no 'weekly gigs', where the same band plays the same venue every Saturday. Doesn't exist. Frankly, I find that a boring concept.

There's not much dancing going on at bars during live shows, but that probably relates to the points above. If a bar want people to dance, they'll play dancing music through their system. Live bands are more for listening.

Plus: There are very few musicians who do not have a day job. Very few, even among the pros. One of my collegues at work is the frontman of a pretty succesfull rock band, who got into the charts and did all the big gigs this country has to offer, and even wrote the soundtrack for a tv-series. Yet for a steady income, he still relies on his daytime job. It's a reality every musicians knows, so we when we go out to play, it's mainly to get our music heard.

Many venues are subsidized cultural centres, which exist not for profit (although of course they should break even with the funds they get), but precisely to give local cultural initiatives (such as an orginals band) chances to get their product out there.

In the private circuit, bar owners ask bands regularly because that will draw a crowd. One bar will program jazz and swing bands, so the cool cats will consider that their 'home bar' and hang out there regularly, even when there's no live music. Another bar will host nights with a few alternative rock/metal bands playing, so they will become home to the scary peeps with spikey wristbands Many people like to see original bands, so turnup will be higher, especially if the band has started making a name for themselves.

I really don't think people here will drink any more or less because of a live band. This is Belgium, beer is cheap and we'll always have enough of it

Anyway, there's probably a lot more to it and I might not be good at explaining what I see, but this post is already far too long and there's work to be done, so see ya

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Then your either new to the local bar business, your band has more bookings than you know what to do with or you and every member of your band is not in this for the money.

Blue

I did my first bar gig 30 years ago, so I'm not new to it. My bands, and my duo, all have plenty of gigs booked, but since I do this for a living, I am in it for the money (among other things).

I did say the requirements are different here, and the same is true in many European countries which I played in recently (also mentioned by others). As for the States, it's been many years since I've been over there, so I can't comment on the music scene in that part of the world.

As I said, if I were given an ultimate like that from a club manager, I'd tell him where he could stick it. That's the truth.

[TRichardsbass]

Low Sound can you send some of that Belgian brew here? I think if you send enough it might change my perspective. After all you did say you have more then enough.

[Low Sound Love]

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

Low Sound can you send some of that Belgian brew here? I think if you send enough it might change my perspective. After all you did say you have more then enough.

If you're serious about it send me a PM and we'll figure it out . But I'm afraid shipping + import duties might cost you a bundle. Plus, the good stuff is verrry addictive (not literally of course, but once you get a taste for it you'll want more of it ).

[chadds]

Originally Posted by vlado

Sadly, I know you're mostly right. But there are still some places that keep on working for years and still push good stuff... One of my favorite clubs is the place where I go and most of the time I have no idea what to expect. It might end up with me leaving after five minutes or staying all night. But one thing that will almost surely not happen is that I end up not having been surprised by the music offered. They have all kinds of stuff there, from singer-songwriters, classically trained accordion players with the 20th century's minimalist composers' repertoire, free-jazz people, to heavy guitar stuff, different kinds of folk music or hard core punk. That was the place I have seen the best gigs in my life so far, with one of my favorite being Marc Ribot doing a solo gig in front of 200 people and demanding complete silence in the venue... That one was worth a lifetime in tears!
You know what? This place works for almost twenty years now, having not less then three gigs a week. Nobody will ever get rich there, but they do survive and do live by their own ethics and enjoy what they do. And they have plenty of people who respect their work and come whenever they're in town. And the great thing is that a lot of people who've played there for small money or no money at all when they were beginning their career will always come back to visit these guys, and come back as friends, because they've been accepted as friends and artists. And also to play again, if they're touring and have a day off from bigger gigs.
I don't know how they manage to survive and keep the place working, but the fact is they do and it's been going for so long, so there's the example that it can happen...

There are places like that. This whole thing isn't and either or.
The Bar owner is correct. He's just saying what is assumed about working anywhere. You know there is a dress code to work at many places. Get wise!
You dress and behave a certain way to get and keep a job.

Now making music for music's sake has its own rewards. Just don't expect to sell it where people have other reasons for gathering. Disco and DJs happened for a reason.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

I did my first bar gig 30 years ago, so I'm not new to it. My bands, and my duo, all have plenty of gigs booked, but since I do this for a living, I am in it for the money (among other things).

I did say the requirements are different here, and the same is true in many European countries which I played in recently (also mentioned by others). As for the States, it's been many years since I've been over there, so I can't comment on the music scene in that part of the world.

As I said, if I were given an ultimate like that from a club manager, I'd tell him where he could stick it. That's the truth.

Yeah , I think it's different over here.

Over here, the small bar and club owners tell us to stick it, not the other way around it.

If you told a club owner in Milwaukee to stick it, you should be packing your gear at the same time.

Blue

Blue

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Yeah , I think it's different over here.

Over here, the small bar and club owners tell us to stick it, not the other way around it.

If you told a club owner in Milwaukee to stick it, you should be packing your gear at the same time.

Blue

Blue

Precisely.

I know there are exceptions, but judging from my experience stateside and the responses on these threads from people all over the US, it appears few of us are in a position to tell a bar owner to "eff himself" if we value the opportunity to play music in his club.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by chadds

Now making music for music's sake has its own rewards. Just don't expect to sell it where people have other reasons for gathering. Disco and DJs happened for a reason.

Profound, and true. Lots of threads and posts pop up on TB from musicians condemning DJs, karaoke, etc., for "stealing" musicians' jobs. I wonder if that would be quite as common if some of those musicians learned to play the game a little better.

Here in the USA.

[bigsnaketex]

DJ's have a place in dance clubs - while I prefer dancing to a great bass groove, (or some wicked Van Morrison or Otis Redding) there are many younger folks that require a "peppier" beat which can only come from electronic music.

I'm 52 years old and don't care for "dance music" but there is no denying it's appeal for those that do.

And for what DJ's charge vs. a band - well us "real" musicians are gonna come up on the short end of that equation every time!

So I for one, applaud the bar owners that stick with music the way the Good Lord inteneded it to be - LIVE AND REAL!!

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by bigsnaketex

DJ's have a place in dance clubs - while I prefer dancing to a great bass groove, (or some wicked Van Morrison or Otis Redding) there are many younger folks that require a "peppier" beat which can only come from electronic music.

Yeah, I know the clubs of which you speak. But sometimes, a bar that was known for live music starts mixing it up and experimenting with pop DJ's and karaoke, even though their regular patrons have gotten used to live music. When that happens (and it's too often here in Denver), I have to wonder if it isn't motivated by economics, and the bands just aren't doing what it takes to help the bar owner meet his financial goals. Because DJ's and KJ's usually aren't any cheaper than a band.

Here in the USA.

[TRichardsbass]

Nothing outstrips a good live act, ever. If you have game, you win. However, I have not had as much success as in the old days in trying to work that dubstep sound live. Also, can't find a freakin' kettle drum that will fit on stage...

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

Nothing outstrips a good live act, ever. If you have game, you win. However, I have not had as much success as in the old days in trying to work that dubstep sound live. Also, can't find a freakin' kettle drum that will fit on stage...

Dance bands in these parts aren't above a little keyboard/sampler augmentation.

[TRichardsbass]

I also haven't found any Transformers who are currently available for local hire...

[imustscream]

I'm confused about what the bar owner meant by no baseball hats and frayed shorts, etc. That eliminates 90% of metal, punk and indie. Maybe he doesnt have those kind of shows and does the oldies coverband open Mic stuff

[TRichardsbass]

No it does not eliminate any of those. You might think that is a "uniform" but it is not. But that is my rant for another time.

In context the bar owner is talking about cover bands playing popular music and current hits. Your typical weekend club band. He is not talking about original bands as any of the genres you mention would not be playing three sets a night at his place.

What he is saying is that if you show up dressed like you just got up or that you dont care about looking pro dont come to his place and cheapen the atmosphere. Think of it as every night for someone in the crowd its a special occasion and you should treat it as such. Dont dress as bad or worse then his customers because he is paying you, you arent there to join the least common denominator.

Your comment and question lead me to believe you are young and not educated in the ways of the biz. My friends Johnny, Joey and Dee Dee never wore frayed shorts. Crap even the Pistols never did. Realize that most of todays artists dont think about image at all which is why most never make it out of their garage.

But again the bar owner was talking about pop cover bands who play Call Me Maybe and Mustang Sally not a bunch of Henry Rollins wannabees.

[MarkMgibson]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that letter (posted on Craigslist?) is genuine anyway. It's a strange place to post such a letter for a start; why not post it on music forums, or better yet, a local music website? If the man feels strongly enough to write such a letter, why not sign his name? I certainly would. It a load a B.S, probably written by some musician trying to get his own point of view across - it certainly reads that way to me.

[QORC]

I'm in the Tampa area as is this bar owner. I sure would like to know WHICH bar posted this.

That being said, the live music situation in Tampa is simply awful. Too few larger venues. The pay is pathetic. The stages, sound systems and set up in many bars is below the minimum necessary for an average band to perform.

If you like getting $300=$400 a show to play in a crap bar in front of nobody, Tampa is for you!

Unfortunately, far too many bands here who are willing to do just that.

While I appreciate that a bar is a business, far too few owners really recognize a "draw" when they see it. They think any band will do. They don't do their homework. They have no interest in developing a draw to their bar with a particular band, although I've seen that a few do just that.

Yes, there is risk to bringing in a band, but what kind of band do you think you'll get paying $300? Not good ones. Not ones with a real fan base. Not ones that are used to being paid decently.

You wouldn't even get my band to drop a deuce in your bar for $300. Not even close.

You get what you pay for. Most bar owners don't get that.