Open letter from bar owner to musicians

[bigsnaketex]

Well, the older I get, the more confused I get on the music scene. Our most "popular" local band is some college kids called the "Molly Ringwalds"......an 80's cover band. They all dress like different members of "popular" 80's bands and they play "popular" 80's music. And when I say "dress", I really mean it. They are spot on and put a lot of effort into the visual portion of the music. Lights, explosions, the whole ball of wax!

Now the 80's was a suck hole for "pop" music and they aren't even terribly talented - but wow, do they bring in the folks to dance. Club owners love them and the door is double normal when they play.

So at the heart of this thread, let none of us forget that it really is all about making money......and marketing. And while many of us are musical "purists" who do it for our own satisfaction and our own "art" - we can't forget that the club owners really don't care about that (for the most part). They just want to sell drinks!!

[skwee]

I take issue with your assertion that the 80s were a suck hole for pop. However, I do agree with your assessment of the business of music. Marketing your researched, quality product is so important.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by bigsnaketex

Now the 80's was a suck hole for "pop" music and they aren't even terribly talented - but wow, do they bring in the folks to dance. Club owners love them and the door is double normal when they play

Well, the 80's may not be your thing, but typical club audiences LOVE this stuff. (Here in the USA). One of the most popular bands in the Denver Metro area is called That 80's Band, and they do the same schtick, New Romantic Madonna Prince Duran Duran, wardrobe, the whole nine yards. Not virtuosos, but competent and faithful musicians to the original versions. They work as often as they like, the best rooms in town, and do a ton of upscale private events. They pretty much write their own ticket.

So at the heart of this thread, let none of us forget that it really is all about making money......and marketing. And while many of us are musical "purists" who do it for our own satisfaction and our own "art" - we can't forget that the club owners really don't care about that (for the most part). They just want to sell drinks!!

Nailed it.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that letter (posted on Craigslist?) is genuine anyway. It's a strange place to post such a letter for a start; why not post it on music forums, or better yet, a local music website? If the man feels strongly enough to write such a letter, why not sign his name? I certainly would. It a load a B.S, probably written by some musician trying to get his own point of view across - it certainly reads that way to me.

Certainly a possibility.

However, it echos the sentiments of almost every bar owner I've ever had this conversation with. Here in the USA.

Coincidence? Prank? (It would be a pretty lame one, since it so closely mirrors reality).

I think not.

And musicians in my area routinely read the Craig's List classified musician ads. I do it, whether I need to or not. It's a good way to see who's doing what. Perfect place to post that letter if you ask me, especially for people putting a band together and needing tips on how to increase their odds of getting booked, and how to handle it when they do.

Here in the USA.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Certainly a possibility.

However, it echos the sentiments of almost every bar owner I've ever had this conversation with. Here in the USA.

Coincidence? Prank? (It would be a pretty lame one, since it so closely mirrors reality).

I think not.

And musicians in my area routinely read the Craig's List classified musician ads. I do it, whether I need to or not. It's a good way to see who's doing what. Perfect place to post that letter if you ask me, especially for people putting a band together and needing tips on how to increase their odds of getting booked, and how to handle it when they do.

Here in the USA.

Funny how it was posted a week after the other thread, "A Message to Club Owners By Musicians" - which was actually signed by the author.

So then we have this article, which is unsigned, and just happens to appear a week later. I don't think it's a "prank" - I think it's a total fabrication. That's just my opinion, "here in Australia". Bull**** is bull***t no matter where you live, and that article reeks of it.

Your "Here In the U.S.A" attitude also stinks.

[bluewine]

I am going to be using the line;

"We have helped other businesses like your increase their premium alcohol sales"

on all my cold calls.

I like the tactic.

Blue

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

Funny how it was posted a week after the other thread, "A Message to Club Owners By Musicians" - which was actually signed by the author.

So then we have this article, which is unsigned, and just happens to appear a week later. I don't think think it's a "prank" - I think it's a total fabrication. That's just my opinion, "here in Australia". Bull**** is bull***t no matter where you live, and that article reeks of it.

Okay Mark. You win. I draw the line at debating conspiracy theorists.

If you want to completely deny the legitimacy of the sentiments contained within the letter, and the supporting sentiments of so many of your fellow TB'ers, that's your choice.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Okay Mark. You win. I draw the line at debating conspiracy theorists.

If you want to completely deny the legitimacy of the sentiments contained within the letter, and the supporting sentiments of so many of your fellow TB'ers, that's your choice.

I didn't deny the opinions of the people here, just the letter itself, but nice try.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

If you want to completely deny the legitimacy of the sentiments contained within the letter, and the supporting sentiments of so many of your fellow TB'ers, that's your choice.

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

I didn't deny the opinions of the people here, just the letter itself, but nice try.

Bolded so you can see it better this time. Try again.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Bolded so you can see it better this time. Try again.

I saw it perfectly the first time, without the childish bolded quotes.

"Try what again"? Debating a subject without continually bringing nationality into it?

[pkstone]

I don't understand the zealousness of some posters here -- why are you so invested in "showing the light" to those who might not have the same priorities as you? It speaks of a certain need to justify a behavior, more than a concern for our well-being.

If you are not a bar-owner, why do you give a crap whether other bands are sufficiently obeisant? Just be smug in the knowledge that you have figured out the secret to making insane profits in a cover band, and quietly look down upon those who don't eagerly pimp the latest drink specials onstage. One would think that twenty pages of arguing would be sufficient time to hammer in your point.

[electracoyote]

Uh oh. The principal just entered the classroom. Shhhhh.

[pkstone]

When you can't address a point directly, I suppose snark is an acceptable substitute.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

"Try what again"? Debating a subject without continually bringing nationality into it?

I can't understand why you're taking that so hard. YOU introduced nationality into the discussion by trying to tell us that the cultural attitude in your country should apply in another. Which is not accurate, is potentially harmful, and that deserves clarification.

The way bar bands do business over here probably wouldn't work well in Australia. Easy enough, right? I'm only saying the way bar bands do business in Australia (accordng to your account) probably wouldn't work very well in most parts of the US. I fail to see what's so offensive about that.

And in case anyone is seriously wondering why people get on internet forums and expound their theories and beliefs, it's because it's an opportunity for others to maybe hear an opinion that could be of value. Or not, it's in the eye of the beholder.

I thought that was self-evident.

Spirited debate too much for you? Find another thread. I hope that was direct enough.

[pkstone]

Debate is one thing, but repeating yourself and hammering on anybody who doesn't exactly toe the line you've drawn (and patronizingly pretending to be speaking to an adoring mass who know exactly what you mean, unless they happen to be from another country) displays a desperation to be justified in your behavior.

By all means, keep going. Maybe you'll convert those heathen outlanders if you keep repeating yourself.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by pkstone

Debate is one thing, but repeating yourself and hammering on anybody who doesn't exactly toe the line you've drawn (and patronizingly pretending to be speaking to an adoring mass who know exactly what you mean, unless they happen to be from another country) displays a desperation to be justified in your behavior.

By all means, keep going. Maybe you'll convert those heathen outlanders if you keep repeating yourself.

I'm reading: You don't like me and my delivery.

I. Am. Crushed.

[pkstone]

I've got nothing personal against you. I just dislike bullying tactics disguised as debate, and wish to point out the desperation such tactics convey.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by pkstone

I've got nothing personal against you. I just dislike bullying tactics disguised as debate, and wish to point out the desperation such tactics convey.

Are you for real? I'm not bullying anyone, other than perhaps the most thin-skinned among us who take offense at anything.

So glad you stopped by. Your complete lack of contributing anything meaningful, while simultaneously criticizing someone who is at least attempting to contribute, is so profound. Not being sarcastic, it really is compelling.

But please, don't let me distract you from continuing the derailment.

[pkstone]

Case in point.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

I can't understand why you're taking that so hard. YOU introduced nationality into the discussion by trying to tell us that the cultural attitude in your country should apply in another. Which is not accurate, is potentially harmful, and that deserves clarification.

The way bar bands do business over here probably wouldn't work well in Australia. Easy enough, right? I'm only saying the way bar bands do business in Australia (accordng to your account) probably wouldn't work very well in most parts of the US. I fail to see what's so offensive about that.

And in case anyone is seriously wondering why people get on internet forums and expound their theories and beliefs, it's because it's an opportunity for others to maybe hear an opinion that could be of value. Or not, it's in the eye of the beholder.

I thought that was self-evident.

Spirited debate too much for you? Find another thread. I hope that was direct enough.

Excuse me? Where did I ever say that "the cultural attitude of my country should apply to another". I merely conceded that were differences, and that perhaps those differences have as much to do with bands as they do with the club owners.

As for spirited debate - I have no problem with that. You're the one who is getting both surly and defensive. This is just an interesting topic of debate for me - nothing more. I haven't taken offence at anything; I think it's you who has the thin skin here.