Open letter from bar owner to musicians

[zachoff]

Originally Posted by CalboDaGo

i have to say...i agree with this 100%

He states the band's job is to sell booze and that's about the only thing I disagree with... The bar's job is to sell booze & the band's job is to play music. If that music can sell more booze then the bar can pay the band to play the music.

[Tom_RCJ]

There's 3 parties involved in bar gigs. Musicians, owners, audiences. All 3 are equally important. All 3 have their own agenda. Musicians want to play music. Owners want to make money. Audiences want to have a good time. It's that simple. If everything done is intended to accommodate the ambitions of all 3 parties, then the system will thrive and everyone will be happy.

There are variations of course. Musicians would like to make a buck as well. I'm sure some venue owners like music. Just make sure you take everyone's interests into account when you make a decision or take an action. Self-interest benefits very few. Cooperation is the way to a healthy and stable environment.

[bassistloaded21]

Maybe venues in my area are different? But we get guarantees a lot of the time. Pay isnt always dependant on how many people you bring in. If you build up a reputation for yourself and bring in people and sometimes you have a off night, you still get your guarantee. Its part of the business. People wont always pack out the bar, but its good for the bars to appreciate your practice and travel time, youre not just getting paid for the actual gig when youre playing, youre getting paid for your practice time, hard work and dedication also. The venues here actually do care about the bands, and not many venue owners where I live would agree with this bar owner. I guess if youre playing covers, its a different story, but they support live original music here very much.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by Tom_RCJ

There's 3 parties involved in bar gigs. Musicians, owners, audiences. All 3 are equally important. All 3 have their own agenda. Musicians want to play music. Owners want to make money. Audiences want to have a good time. It's that simple. If everything done is intended to accommodate the ambitions of all 3 parties, then the system will thrive and everyone will be happy.

There are variations of course. Musicians would like to make a buck as well. I'm sure some venue owners like music. Just make sure you take everyone's interests into account when you make a decision or take an action. Self-interest benefits very few. Cooperation is the way to a healthy and stable environment.

Good post. I just read the message to the bar owners from the musician in the other thread and the one here from the owner to bands. Both made perfectly valid points and there seemed to me more common aims than conflicts of interest, at least as far as working musicians are concerned.

[pedro]

Maybe venues in my area are different? But we get guarantees a lot of the time. Pay isnt always dependant on how many people you bring in. If you build up a reputation for yourself and bring in people and sometimes you have a off night, you still get your guarantee.

Around here its the same way. You always get guaranteed amount. A couple of place will offer a bonus if you bring in more than a certain amount of people.

but its good for the bars to appreciate your practice and travel time, youre not just getting paid for the actual gig when youre playing, youre getting paid for your practice time, hard work and dedication also.

Its not their responsibility to care about your practice or travel, etc. no more so than it's a musicians responsibility to care about whether the bar owner is having to come in early and leave late to keep his place operating.

The venues here actually do care about the bands, and not many venue owners where I live would agree with this bar owner. I guess if youre playing covers, its a different story, but they support live original music here very much.

I play in a cover band but are the owners who provide venues for live original music in your area not concerned with making a profit?

[hotrodjohn]

Chefs should own the restaurants.
Doctors should own the hospitals.
Musicians should own the live music bars.

And I guess strippers should own the strip joints.

[Kmonk]

I agree. For the 35 years I've been playing I have always said women want to drink and dance and guys want to drink and watch women dance. The more women dance, the more guys sit and drink, the more ounces are sold. Its a pretty simple formula.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by hotrodjohn

Chefs should own the restaurants.
Doctors should own the hospitals.
Musicians should own the live music bars.

And I guess strippers should own the strip joints.

My experience is that doctors, musicians and chefs are all notoriously bad businessmen.

[ksandvik]

If you play music most girls like and have an interesting image, they will come and even create a following. Then the guys follow and the bar is busy. Pretty simple formula. Hint, girls like to dance, not listen to blue notes, not being fascinated who plays the longest blues rock solo on this planet wearing a baseball cap and shorts. Or plays tiring old songs wondering where the audience is.

PS: Here in the bay area I could easily predict what bands will succeed or not in this specific business just based on their image, their songs and how much they work on a following. Also another reason why I don't join such bands as a permanent member as this formula is so easy and has no challenge.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

If you play music most girls like and have an interesting image, they will come and even create a following. Then the guys follow and the bar is busy. Pretty simple formula. Hint, girls like to dance, not listen to blue notes, not being fascinated who plays the longest blues rock solo on this planet wearing a baseball cap and shorts. Or plays tiring old songs wondering where the audience is.

About a year ago (for a short time) I was the house bass player at a local blues gig. The deal was that a 'real-deal-old-school' cat from Chicago or Milwaukee, etc. would come in and do a couple of sets and then there would be a jam. Guess who came most nights? Yep half a dozen guitarist aching to do their blues licks. However, one night a group of scorching hot ladies came. I kid you not these were UNBELIEVABLE!! They requested 'Brown Eyed Girl' and 'da blues guys' refused. The ladies did an about face and were never ever seen again. I'd played 'Brown Eyed Girl' all freakin night for these ladies.

[ksandvik]

Or, a quick summary for most bar bands to get more gigs:

1) Lose weight
2) Get haircuts
3) Get good stage costumes
4) Make sure you have a magnetic front man/women
5) Fix your Facebook and web site/mailing list, build a community
6) Clean up your playlist with songs that girls like to dance to
7) Rehearse like Prince or Zappa, 10 hours a day so everything is tight.

[hotrodjohn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrodjohn
Chefs should own the restaurants.
Doctors should own the hospitals.
Musicians should own the live music bars.

And I guess strippers should own the strip joints.

My experience is that doctors, musicians and chefs are all notoriously bad businessmen.


I think we could agree that businessmen are great at screwing all the above....hahaha

[pedro]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Or, a quick summary for most bar bands to get more gigs:

1) Lose weight
2) Get haircuts
3) Get good stage costumes
4) Make sure you have a magnetic front man/women
5) Fix your Facebook and web site/mailing list, build a community
6) Clean up your playlist with songs that girls like to dance to
7) Rehearse like Prince or Zappa, 10 hours a day so everything is tight.

IME that's beyond the reality for most bar band. But paying attention to the set list and making sure it appeals to bar patrons (vs the musicians vanity) and cleaning up the wardrobe a bit would be a good start.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by hotrodjohn

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrodjohn
Chefs should own the restaurants.
Doctors should own the hospitals.
Musicians should own the live music bars.

And I guess strippers should own the strip joints.

My experience is that doctors, musicians and chefs are all notoriously bad businessmen.


I think we could agree that businessmen are great at screwing all the above....hahaha

(Nods head in agreement.)

[vlado]

I can understand the letter from the perspective of a bar owner, but I don't have any idea how would a great band, performing their original music, ever get to become big if the chances for the gigs would only depend on selling the booze. I mean if there's no place to play that isn't directly attached to the amount of drinks sold, we'd never have a chance to listen to so much great music... just imagine something like... say... John McLaughlin & Shakti - you obviously cannot place them in the kind of venue the letter describes. And to get booked by festivals, which is a kind of natural environment for that act, I suppose they'd still need to work their way through some smaller venues. Well, now, if all the venues worked precisely and distinctly according to that bar owner's point of view, if there was no place to play at that was managed by a music loving enthusiast who likes to hear good music and builds his venue's reputation by having interesting bands playing there, we'd be deprived of so much great stuff... And we'd get stuck with Lynyrd Skynyrd wannabees...
The whole idea of packing the place with drunks is very short-sighted. If that is what you do that's also what you'd get. And you always have to be careful for what you wish... There are different places and different logic applies. It's not all black and white!

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by vlado

I can understand the letter from the perspective of a bar owner, but I don't have any idea how would a great band, performing their original music, ever get to become big if the chances for the gigs would only depend on selling the booze. I mean if there's no place to play that isn't directly attached to the amount of drinks sold, we'd never have a chance to listen to so much great music... just imagine something like... say... John McLaughlin & Shakti - you obviously cannot place them in the kind of venue the letter describes. And to get booked by festivals, which is a kind of natural environment for that act, I suppose they'd still need to work their way through some smaller venues. Well, now, if all the venues worked precisely and distinctly according to that bar owner's point of view, if there was no place to play at that was managed by a music loving enthusiast who likes to hear good music and builds his venue's reputation by having interesting bands playing there, we'd be deprived of so much great stuff... And we'd get stuck with Lynyrd Skynyrd wannabees...
The whole idea of packing the place with drunks is very short-sighted. If that is what you do that's also what you'd get. And you always have to be careful for what you wish... There are different places and different logic applies. It's not all black and white!

Any club owner that thinks like you would like them to think will be out of business in a couple years.

[Wookieonbass]

Great article and what he says really hits home.

[kevteop]

Hmm.

The guy's right. Bands that bring in crowds that drink a lot are the bands that get paid a lot and booked a lot. This isn't about music though, it's about bar work.

I did that for a couple of years quite successfully in New Jersey. We didn't even have to resort to playing covers. So that was nice. For me though it wasn't very satisfying. It was a funk band so it was fairly busy stuff on the bass but still, seemed to lack something - integrity or something like that. It's hard to define but whatever it was, we didn't have it, and I didn't want to do it any more.

The most recent band I did was a sort-of punk/reggae/electronic thing. Really quite fresh sounding. Never made any money, never really drew a crowd, because it was a little bit challenging to listen to for most people because audiences for music aren't what they used to be. Still it's the most interesting gig I've ever done and I would happily trade the years I spent playing middle-of-the-road funk to audiences of 2-3000 and making good money for more time spent playing genuinely interesting and character-packed reggae-ish stuff to 'crowds' of 20-30 people in my last band.

I was trying to get somewhere with this... I think it's basically that if a band and a bar owner find themselves singing from the same hymn sheet it's either because the bar owner is truly, genuinely interested in music, or the band isn't.

[JamesGoodall]

What I'm seeing
Business-oriented people/cover bands- Hmm, yes. This makes sense.
Originals bands/the non business-oriented- What?!No! This is stupid and all bar owners are cutthroats and extortionists who dont respect what I sacrifice for the music!

I usually play in original projects, understanding that we wont make much money at all. Maybe enough to cover gas for the two drivers which was me hauling our gear and one guy, and someone else hauling the rest of the band/merch guy. Honestly, playing originals/getting your "art" out there is great, and I love doing it too. But you have to understand you arent marketable, and accept that.

On a separate note, I used to barback at a BBQ place last summer (that since went out of business due to poor management) and the guy hit it spot on. The people who dressed nice and played the "popular" (country isnt my thing and the target market is 30+) songs were back because they knew how to do it and how to sell our liquor. The bands that couldnt yet still felt entitled as artists didnt, and my managers had a great time complaining about them after closing.

Tl;dr, your job is to sell drinks. If you bring people too, great! but sell booze. That is what is making the money that pays you, and if they notice increased sales on nights you play, hey! Maybe you'll get paid a bit more next time.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Or, a quick summary for most bar bands to get more gigs:

1) Lose weight
2) Get haircuts
3) Get good stage costumes
4) Make sure you have a magnetic front man/women
5) Fix your Facebook and web site/mailing list, build a community
6) Clean up your playlist with songs that girls like to dance to
7) Rehearse like Prince or Zappa, 10 hours a day so everything is tight.

With this business model, even modest music skills will keep you working as much as you can handle. Gauranteed.