Open letter from bar owner to musicians

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by vlado

I can understand the letter from the perspective of a bar owner, but I don't have any idea how would a great band, performing their original music, ever get to become big if the chances for the gigs would only depend on selling the booze.

In my neck of the woods, the rooms that will roll the dice and book originals acts (1) don't pay the band unless the band brings a huge following, and even then you don't get paid the percentage promised, (2) charge exorbitant prices for beverages and food, and on top of that, (3) charge patrons a cover or admission fee, which, as noted above, rarely trickles all the way down to the band.

This is an entirely different business model from the one in the open letter. There are places for originals acts to play, if they are okay with the different business arrangement those venues usually have.

There is a bottom line, and it has to do with paying the rent, electric bill, staff, and various licenses it takes to operate a club, and still having something left over for the venue owner to pay his own living expenses. Whether it's originals or covers, one way or the other, the venue owner always has his eye on the bottom line, or else he goes belly-up.

[vlado]

Originally Posted by hdracer

Any club owner that thinks like you would like them to think will be out of business in a couple years.

Sadly, I know you're mostly right. But there are still some places that keep on working for years and still push good stuff... One of my favorite clubs is the place where I go and most of the time I have no idea what to expect. It might end up with me leaving after five minutes or staying all night. But one thing that will almost surely not happen is that I end up not having been surprised by the music offered. They have all kinds of stuff there, from singer-songwriters, classically trained accordion players with the 20th century's minimalist composers' repertoire, free-jazz people, to heavy guitar stuff, different kinds of folk music or hard core punk. That was the place I have seen the best gigs in my life so far, with one of my favorite being Marc Ribot doing a solo gig in front of 200 people and demanding complete silence in the venue... That one was worth a lifetime in tears!
You know what? This place works for almost twenty years now, having not less then three gigs a week. Nobody will ever get rich there, but they do survive and do live by their own ethics and enjoy what they do. And they have plenty of people who respect their work and come whenever they're in town. And the great thing is that a lot of people who've played there for small money or no money at all when they were beginning their career will always come back to visit these guys, and come back as friends, because they've been accepted as friends and artists. And also to play again, if they're touring and have a day off from bigger gigs.
I don't know how they manage to survive and keep the place working, but the fact is they do and it's been going for so long, so there's the example that it can happen...

[bassguitarthund]

Originally Posted by rockinrayduke

They hate water sippers. Lot of places I play charge you for a bottle of water for non-drinkers, no free tap water. I don't blame them.

Sometimes when I go to the bar I just drink water and not alcohol. However that is because I was nominated as the D.D. for the night. When that is the case and they ask me what I want to drink I tell them I am the D.D. so I just ask for a water or pop and they seem cool with it. When I am not the D.D. I spend my fair share on rum and diet, part pirate, lol!!

As for the letter, seems legit to me.

[bassguitarthund]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

None of the places that i go are like that.
The number of drinkers far outweigh the non-drinkers.

The bars do stock and charge for non-alcoholic drinks (soda, coffee, etc.)
However, A couple of places give the Designated Driver their drinks for free.

No one charges for a glass of water.

Same as most of the places I go. I also do security at bars, clubs and events. We would rather people get home safe because they have a D.D. Of course your bartenders and servers have a responsibility of making sure the patrons do not get over served, I have seen it happen though.

[/\/\3phist0]

Originally Posted by pedro

About a year ago (for a short time) I was the house bass player at a local blues gig. The deal was that a 'real-deal-old-school' cat from Chicago or Milwaukee, etc. would come in and do a couple of sets and then there would be a jam. Guess who came most nights? Yep half a dozen guitarist aching to do their blues licks. However, one night a group of scorching hot ladies came. I kid you not these were UNBELIEVABLE!! They requested 'Brown Eyed Girl' and 'da blues guys' refused. The ladies did an about face and were never ever seen again. I'd played 'Brown Eyed Girl' all freakin night for these ladies.

Reminds me of this
http://youtu.be/24_tiGZgPP4

[jmattbassplaya]

Most bars in my area will actually give DDs free soda if you tell them that's what you're there for.

[SquierJazz72]

I agree mostly, but not sure on the alcohol angle. Never thought it was the bands job to get people to drink. To me, the bands job was to keep people entertained and engaged, so that they would stay the whole time, thus, along the way, spending their cold hard cash on drinks, food, smokes, etc...

Years ago I was in two different bands, and I knew all the other local bands as well, and that's more what it was. We just kept people entertained and the rest happened as a matter of course.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

I agree mostly, but not sure on the alcohol angle. Never thought it was the bands job to get people to drink. To me, the bands job was to keep people entertained and engaged, so that they would stay the whole time, thus, along the way, spending their cold hard cash on drinks, food, smokes, etc...

Years ago I was in two different bands, and I knew all the other local bands as well, and that's more what it was. We just kept people entertained and the rest happened as a matter of course.

I'd assume it's because the profit margins on booze are so great that they'd rather push that over anything else. Pushing food isn't bad, but that's more staff you have to have to pay and have on hand for much smaller margins. Also, keeping patrons around who aren't buying anything really isn't doing more than taking up space that could be filled with people buying drinks left and right for a bar.

[msaone]

Thats a great letter.

[SquierJazz72]

I'd assume it's because the profit margins on booze are so great that they'd rather push that over anything else.

I understand and agree there. In my experience though, most people didn't need any extra encouragement to be buying drinks, as long as they were entertained enough to stay. Which is why I do agree fully with everything else i n the letter.

Then again I have been out of that loop for a while, so maybe alcohol is a slightly harder sell now.

[bassistloaded21]

Here, how much booze the bar sells has nothing to do with what we get paid whatsoever

[chiron_griffin]

I'd like all the kids in my local scene to read this. They raised hell when a sports bar stopped allowing hardcore shows after a few weeks. The bar was losing sales because all the people in the scene would drink cheap beer in the parking lot, and the music would scare off the regulars. They blamed the venue, I blamed their lack of respect and poor taste in music.

[joelb79]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

No one charges for a glass of water.

I beg to differ. Come here to Michigan and I'll show you a few places that will sneer at you and charge a dollar for a water. And the game doesn't change at that bar either, draw people sell booze.

Originally Posted by bassistloaded21

Here, how much booze the bar sells has nothing to do with what we get paid whatsoever

This is becoming increasingly rarer just a few counties over in your same state. Be warned; I would expect even places in your town to be the same; since I've played a few myself. One local band that has a huge draw makes $2000 at the same bar a different band makes $500. Honestly, the sales are a factor everywhere. If you make the owner smile, they will wise up and pay more to keep you around when they know you get paid more at other places. To a degree; some places have paid bands more that did well at places with a baked in draw hoping to cash in on the band when its not catering to their clients and crowd so it ends up being a loss to them. Now they wont pay more and expect more from bands; after chasing away bands that had draw who wanted more money since their bar was the lowest paying gig on their calender.

Another gig here in town I just started is pay on scale of drink sales. it just happens to be a premier place in town on an off night when no music was happening, but the draw is starting now and we will be paid more when its justified. our tip jar overflows because we will play anything the crowd asks for. So far this is working too as well. Now we will apply this drink sales approach and sell the clubs martini's; since its 'Tini Tuesdays.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Or, a quick summary for most bar bands to get more gigs:

1) Lose weight
2) Get haircuts
3) Get good stage costumes
4) Make sure you have a magnetic front man/women
5) Fix your Facebook and web site/mailing list, build a community
6) Clean up your playlist with songs that girls like to dance to
7) Rehearse like Prince or Zappa, 10 hours a day so everything is tight.

Lose weight, get a haircut and wear nice clothes - are you for real? We may as well all pack in music and become accountants. (Or perhaps you are an accountant?)

[mazdah]

If that was true, there would be no:

Pink Floyd, The Doors, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Zappa, Rolling Stones, Creedence, Cream, Clapton, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Nazareth, Queen, Miles Davis, Muddy Watters, Weather Report, Jaco Pastorius, King Crimson, The Who, Primus, Riverside, Tool, Rush, Kansas, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Allman Brothers, Iron Maiden, The Cult, The Cure, Govt Mule, Focus, Jethro Tull, Kyuss, Sleep, Electric Wizard, Queens of the stone age, Corrosion of Conformity, Orange Goblin, Spiritual Beggars, Red Fang, Down, Clutch, Alabama Thunderpussy, Pantera, Korn, Cannibal Corpse, Godsmack, Disturbed, Marylin Manson....

and many, many, MANY others.

US had the same problem back in the 60's. Thanks to Motown, Stax and Chess you had great music to dance, but you needed "British invasion" to move stagnant music scene.
The big labels were just as club owners now - noone wanted to "risk" with the "strange looking" or "strage playing" band.

I know not everyone is Jaco Pastorius/Steve Harris/Les Claypool/Roger Waters (and not everyone should be), but I am sure, they would not succeed if they had to play only rooths and fifths to get people to dance, and dress and behave nicely.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by bassistloaded21

Here, how much booze the bar sells has nothing to do with what we get paid whatsoever

Same here on a given night. But if you don't bring in a crowd or the place doesn't make money the fact of the matter is you won't get asked back. It's simple economics which I expect applies everywhere.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Or, a quick summary for most bar bands to get more gigs:

1) Lose weight
2) Get haircuts
3) Get good stage costumes
4) Make sure you have a magnetic front man/women
5) Fix your Facebook and web site/mailing list, build a community
6) Clean up your playlist with songs that girls like to dance to
7) Rehearse like Prince or Zappa, 10 hours a day so everything is tight.

Haircuts??????
Look presentable yes
High & tight? not for a rock band....
You have to look the part, nothing worse then a bunch of guys that look like lawyers playing 80's hair metal or 90's grunge.....

[joelb79]

Originally Posted by hdracer

Haircuts??????
Look presentable yes
High & tight? not for a rock band....
You have to look the part, nothing worse then a bunch of guys that look like lawyers playing 80's hair metal or 90's grunge.....

If your playing 80's hair metal or 90's grunge exclusively there are a lot of places you won't get called back to nor even land the gig. 80's dance music? Bring it, the girls love that stuff. (love shack baby!)

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Or, a quick summary for most bar bands to get more gigs:

1) Lose weight
2) Get haircuts
3) Get good stage costumes
4) Make sure you have a magnetic front man/women
5) Fix your Facebook and web site/mailing list, build a community
6) Clean up your playlist with songs that girls like to dance to
7) Rehearse like Prince or Zappa, 10 hours a day so everything is tight.

Great posters go a long way too. The few bands in town that has all this going on also has great posters that catch your eye. I've literally watched people read their posters and ignore other people's. They also make $2000+ a night at bars that the other guys make $500 at. But I know they one does 7 and the other doesn't.. the one that doesn't could use improvement; especially after a they've been drinking a bit. The guys that do 7 also happen to have 4 bands each with Jazz training/degrees.

[Musiclogic]

Especially these days, most younger musicians have no clue why bars bring in live bands. The kids always think everything they want is their "right", as opposed to what the business owner requires to keep the bar operating.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by joelb79

If your playing 80's hair metal or 90's grunge exclusively there are a lot of places you won't get called back to nor even land the gig. 80's dance music? Bring it, the girls love that stuff. (love shack baby!)



Great posters go a long way too. The band in town that has all this going on also has great posters that catch your eye.

'Love Shack' is one of my favorites and always fills the dance floor.