Open letter from bar owner to musicians

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by bassbully

I don't know about you but in my neck of the woods we (bands) need bars, clubs ,owners and manager way more than they need us so you deal with it.

Not to start an originals versus covers debate, but I think that there is much more of an equal need when it comes to cover bands.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Do people need gas stations to obtain gas, or do gas stations need customers to buy their gas? They both need each other, and market forces dictate the quantity available and the cost of the supply based on the demand.

Around here, lots of bars and clubs want to hire cover bands to come in and provide entertainment. Yes, we need them, but they also need us. It's a give and take, mutually beneficial relationship.

Original bands... yeah, they probably do need the bars more than the bars need them.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Why would we do that when you can book a 9-1 paying gig at a cover club or bar?

Blue

That was my point. Why rent a hall when the venues are already available? Its not cost effective.

[SteveHeissner]

Excellent post. Whether we like it or not, we're there to SELL food and alcohol and lot's of it.

[4001]

"I don’t care if you’re bald, a baseball cap is unacceptable."
There's a thread about this somewhere here on TB...

[jungleheat]

Originally Posted by Factor88

Was I just lucky? You might think so, but then I also never seem to have problems with bandleaders, police (not that I have not been ticketed, etc), local government, or 95% of my supervisors at all my day jobs. At that point you realize it is not luck. The people who go through life having so many problems and disagreements with those with some sort of power over them should look in a mirror...it ain't them...it's you.....

You basically just said, there no a-holes in the world, but if you have problems with people, it's probably because you are an a-hole. So how does that work?

The thing is, there ARE a-holes out there. LOTS of them. Some people are just mean and nasty in general, and almost go out of their way to be like that. Others might just be oblivious and not realize what they are doing. But regardless of the reason, they're out there and they cause a ripple effect in everyone around them.

And then on the other hand, there are people who just go through life not really caring much about the world around them, and just "going along to get along", like yourself presumably. That's fine, but that complacency has it's own drawbacks (I'll let you use your imagination what they might be).

So yeah, some people have problems with internal causes, some people have problems with external causes, and some people have problems with both internal and external causes. In fact, most people have a mix of all 3 categories.

[BayStateBass]

Well, I have to agree with Factor. My experience is that most people who constantly have friction and problems with the vast majority of people in their lives are often the ones causing it.

You have to look at the one constant and eliminate the variables to find the cause.......

[SteveHeissner]

Dudes, if we all just smoked more pot and mellowed out there'd be less friction in life and we'd all get along better.

[capncal]

good article and i agree 100% it's still crappy of bar owners to offer a "guarantee" then not pay us because we didn't pull enough crowd.

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by The Thinker

I enjoyed the article and found it helpful. I'd love to know what the "trade secret" sales technique is .

That was my question from it too.

I think it is not making him do any of your marketing work for you. In 45 seconds you can bring in an iPad with a montage performance queued up on video and supplement it with some video of your demographics and a good crowd, then maybe bartenders or owners thanking you for a great night. Everything he needs to know for a decision on the spot with no extra work on his part needed.

It is either something like that or hiring a hot girl to sell it for you.

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by PJMiDi

yea you make a huge profit margin on liquor but you also have to consider the other costs. considering thats their only profit margin pretty much they have to use that to pay for labor, maint, util, product cost, advertising and tons more. There's a reason a drink made with 7-8$ a bottle alcohol cost 5$

Not to mention the 10-25% that bartenders and staff give away or pocket the money from...

[jumblemind]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Obviously there are costs associated with running a business and they should always be considered, but after adding up the revenues it seems like the bar is making at least a grand off of us on a bad night and is making close to $1,600 or more off of us on a good night (and we almost always have good nights). Needless to say, we'll be asking for a pay raise very soon.

Not knowing (or having read) what your band is making at this place, this kind of overlooks or underestimates a bar's costs. TN has very high taxes per drink, not to mention licenses, liability, etc. While we think it's crazy to pay 3x what the same drink would cost buying at a store, there are a lot of associative costs that completely eat up the margin. That's why an owner pushes for premium drinks. Since the associative costs are the same for every drink, the premiums offer better margins.

Then there's bigger picture stuff. When my working band approached one bar owner for never having delivered a previously-discussed bonus for packing the house with booze guzzlers, he told us flatly "I depend on the few good nights to cover all of the bad ones."

Don't get me wrong, I think you should ask for a raise, because you never get more til you ask for it, and musicians often just don't ask. But also because I think that the OP letter is fake. It reads completely like a working musician wrote it. Owners will always try to squeeze as much as they can...those that really "take care" of bands never keep their doors open for very long. And I have never met an owner/booking agent that looked at things as even-keeled as this supposed open letter depicts.

[socialleper]

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

The letter from the club owner talks about clubs in Tampa, probably actually Ybor City. Which are 99% cover bands.

As for originals, there are specific venues that offer that to their customers. Those places, normally, work on "I have just enough to eat" profit. They do it mostly for the love.

Even if you are an original band, which I have been priviledged to have been in many and on a major label, and you are playing a typical cover establishment, you better play the stuff that is viable to his audience. Meaning, for example, if you play "Screamo" music, don't play the local tiki bar. If your original band is more like, say, Jessie Jay, then obviously you shouldn't be playing bars that cater to metal heads. And still you have to do most of all the other stuff the club owner asks. Again, the bar is HIS business, and he is hiring you to add to the bottom line. He is not bringing you in so YOU can gain a following, he is not there to further your career, nor manage for you. He is paying you to play and to help sell booze and food.

Again, a club owner has invested much, much, much more then you ever will into your band, so if he seems to not care if you are an original band trying to make it, understand. He has to pay the bills everyday. Most bands, especially original bands, don't make any money, so its not your full time job.

Maybe that is another point to make. If any of the posters here who had negative things to say about the club owner were actually making their full time living wage playing music, you would probably not say what you did. You would clearly understand it. Most musicians and bands are nice side income that is fun to do. So, I say, lose the attitude. Suck it up. He is paying you. If you were paying him, what would you expect him to do to ensure your success?

I think maybe one of the problems is that the band and the bar don't have the same goals in mind. The band may not give two $%!^s about the place they are playing, its a stepping stone in their mind; and the club/bar owner sees so many bands come and go, all they care about is selling drinks.
If I didn't love playing so much I'd never want to be in the music business. The musicians, the club owners, the labels, the MI stores, and even the fans to a degree are all looking to feed off each other in some way. When younger people ask me about getting into music I tell them don't. If you want a hobby, fine; if you like listening fine; but I'd never want one of my kids trying to do it.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by SteveHeissner

Dudes, if we all just smoked more pot and mellowed out there'd be less friction in life and we'd all get along better.

But no one would want to play with us...

420 at practice - at what point do you tell somebody?

[Ric5]

So these bar owners want us to spend years developing our craft as musicians and then invest in thousands of dollars of equipment, just so we can come in and be low paid liquor salesman ... dude really?!?! A better career path would be to simply drive a beer truck. The hours would be better and the pay would be better as well.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by Ric5

So these bar owners want us to spend years developing our craft as musicians and then invest in thousands of dollars of equipment, just so we can come in and be low paid liquor salesman ... dude really?!?! a better career path would be to simply drive a beer truck brew the beer. The hours would be better and the pay would be better as well.

fix'd

[Muttleybass]

Originally Posted by Ric5

So these bar owners want us to spend years developing our craft as musicians and then invest in thousands of dollars of equipment, just so we can come in and be low paid liquor salesman ... dude really?!?! a better career path would be to simply drive a beer truck. The hours would be better and the pay would be better as well.

Spoken in sarcasm, but unfortunately there's a lot of truth to it.

[BayStateBass]

Originally Posted by Ric5

So these bar owners want us to spend years developing our craft as musicians and then invest in thousands of dollars of equipment, just so we can come in and be low paid liquor salesman ... dude really?!?! A better career path would be to simply drive a beer truck. The hours would be better and the pay would be better as well.

Yes.

[Kubicki440]

Very insightful topic. Well written by the bar owner and I can't say I disagree with him or her.

The 60 second elevator pitch is over utilized though. Bottom line look professional and show interest in earning the bartender the maximum amount of cash and keep the patrons happy and entertained. Well that is what I walk away with.

I have been out of the bar scene for awhile, as soon as I am with a gigging band once again, I suppose I can use this advice. Or at least start out with the proper expectations.

Thanks for sharing.

[Kubicki440]

Originally Posted by Ric5

So these bar owners want us to spend years developing our craft as musicians and then invest in thousands of dollars of equipment, just so we can come in and be low paid liquor salesman ... dude really?!?! A better career path would be to simply drive a beer truck. The hours would be better and the pay would be better as well.

Well that could be. I always made more dough at parties and weddings. It is frustrating I know.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by jumblemind

Don't get me wrong, I think you should ask for a raise, because you never get more til you ask for it, and musicians often just don't ask. But also because I think that the OP letter is fake. It reads completely like a working musician wrote it. Owners will always try to squeeze as much as they can...those that really "take care" of bands never keep their doors open for very long. And I have never met an owner/booking agent that looked at things as even-keeled as this supposed open letter depicts.

I agree that the letter just doesn't ring true (I doubt it was written by a bar owner). Having said that, I know a few clubs who really look after bands and have a genuine interest in live music. I also know of managers who are cheap, thieving scumbags. In general though, most fall somewhere in between (meaning that they're not bad people, but they don't really understand how to manage live music venues)

If, however, you have a very good band, you have the edge when negotiating, because there are a lot of very ordinary bands out there, but few really good ones (in a given area). So I guess my point is, be one of the really good bands and you'll get plenty of gigs and be well paid for them. (I knew I had a point there somewhere).