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Old 06-15-2009, 02:51 PM
appler
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Question Operating Agreements

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Hey! I'm in a pop/rock band that's beginning to think big. We've formed an LLC and hired an attorney and we're in the process of creating an operating agreement that will lay out percentages based on who booked the gig, who wrote the song, and so on. Does anybody know what the going rates are as far as royalties, payment for gigs, etc.?

I'm reading Don Passman's music business book but I would really appreciate some up-to-date info and experience. I'm not so much concerned with my slice of the pie as I am concerned that I can pay the bills - I just want to make sure I'm not getting screwed. What should I ask for in a contract like this?

Thanks so much!
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:31 PM
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You've asked an awful lot here.

If you're going to pay members differently, then lay out responsibilities so that you can decide how much each job is worth. A bonus for a bandmate who drives/haul equipment?

Is there a bandleader who makes decisions, or is everything put to a vote? What is the decision policy when you can't get a vote in a timely manner?

How much is the booking bonus? Is it a percentage of the gig pay, or a flat fee? What if the gig payment changes (more or less)? Does that change the bonus? Also, do band members get to say "That was a crappy venue...no bonus for you?"

Does the "booker" get his bonus if a gig is canceled? Canceled by the band? By the venue? What if two members book simultaneous gigs?

What is the policy when hiring substitute players? What if the absent member booked the gig?

As for song royalties, the venue pays ASCAP. Let the songwriter worry about getting paid by ASCAP, just like every songwriter does. This forces the writer to do all the right paperwork to ensure he gets royalties. Put that in writing. Don't get involved in the paperwork at all.

How many gigs will it take to pay back all the fees so far?
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:43 PM
appler
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Thanks, Rick. Good points - let me try and clarify a bit. Clearly I'm out of my element here so any guidance or direction would be fantastic.

The agreement covers payment from album sales, merchandise and gigs and (I think) any other revenue we might take in.

The booking bonus is a percentage and I think it's only good if we get paid - what's a good number here?

Thanks for the tip about ASCAP. Wasn't familiar with that. I'm going to ask that subs be dealt with on an individual basis, preferably the guy who hires the sub just pays the sub what he would have made.

We've already made back what we paid the attorney so far but I'm sure that'll change in the near future! As I understand it, he's charging us a "friendly" rate since we're still young and broke.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:32 PM
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I can't suggest a booking-bonus percentage, because I don't have any experience with formal band agreements. The main thing was just to shoot questions at you to think about.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:39 PM
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You want to PM Dave Muscato or check out http://www.musicthinktank.com/blog/d...g-your-ow.html.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:49 PM
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I would think that pay distributed equally would be simpler and therefore easier to manage.
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  #7  
Old 06-15-2009, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by appler View Post
Thanks, Rick. Good points - let me try and clarify a bit. Clearly I'm out of my element here so any guidance or direction would be fantastic.

The agreement covers payment from album sales, merchandise and gigs and (I think) any other revenue we might take in.

The booking bonus is a percentage and I think it's only good if we get paid - what's a good number here?

Thanks for the tip about ASCAP. Wasn't familiar with that. I'm going to ask that subs be dealt with on an individual basis, preferably the guy who hires the sub just pays the sub what he would have made.

We've already made back what we paid the attorney so far but I'm sure that'll change in the near future! As I understand it, he's charging us a "friendly" rate since we're still young and broke.
Not sure if you saw this http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...nd#post7264851

The division of income among a band can be as simple or complex as the band wants it to be. And it often depends on the band dynamic. For example, is there one main songwriter? If so, some writers aren't too keen on splitting the money from their songs.

There really isn't an objective "fair" or getting "screwed," in my opinion. First off, when there is little or no success, people tend to be more incline to divide things up equally. That’s not necessarily more “fair,” it’s just that what’s being agreed on has no real context or consequences at the time of the decision.

Obviously, once money and success come, it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that certain band members feel they are more valuable and deserve more, regardless of what was originally agreed to. Perhaps less obvious would be the example where, since there are no liabilities at the start, band members may agree to share any liabilities equally (e.g., costs to record the band's album). However, would you want to share in the liability if someone in your band used pyrotechnics on stage in a small club that caused it to burn down and kill people? What seemed “fair” at the time (i.e., all for one and one for all) may not be so appealing later.

Often times I have a producer client who wants to sign an artist to a production agreement and will say they want to be “fair.” However, different producer clients have very different points of view. I’ve seen superstar producer clients be “aggressive” (e.g., “I’m so and so and they’re lucky to have this opportunity”) and I’ve seen superstars take less than what they seemingly “deserve.” I’ve also seen people whose career is on the downward trend act a little “desperate.” Sometimes any particular producer’s response is shaped by how they were treated when they started, the genre they work in (urban can be a little rough and tumble), the current status of their career, etc.

You simply have to think things through, talk it over, get professional input, and, ultimately, do the best you can. In my opinion, there isn’t an answer.

Best,
MA
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  #8  
Old 06-16-2009, 11:38 AM
appler
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Thanks for the input and advice! I'm just trying to gather as much information as possible so I know what to look for when they ask me to sign the papers.

By the way, it looks like we're going to split the profits from the album up with different percentages for the songwriter, for the performance artists, for expenses and for management.
  #9  
Old 06-16-2009, 02:44 PM
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Ours is divided in a couple of different ways. We have 7 members. 6 band and 1 "Crew" that are part of the agreement. Divided equally between the band with the left over points for the 1 crew. Song credits are the whole band. Now, we have our LLC agreement for that and incoming/Outgoing Company money. We have now also drafted a payroll for all employee's of the LLC. This is where we have spelled out work responsibilities and duties and have given percentages to each. We also wrote in a "base" pay which includes the bare minimum (Show up to practice, gigs, hand out fliers) and then the extra duties pay (hours driving, cleaning the jam spot, perforrming maintanence on vehicles and such). We have also included bonus' for people who put up money (like a loan) when we need and and then give a % of interest for someone coughing up the money up front and getting paid back.
There are a lot of things that can go into these agreements.
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