P.A. system or sound guy?

[kmk42019]

I am new to this whole band thing. Being playing with some guys for almost 6 months and want to start doing shows. So we either need to hire a sound guy to do our sound or buy a P.A. I dont know anything about P.A.'s so if you do recommend a P.A. system what do you recommend(speakers, amp, etc.) and how do you run it? Im sorry if this is in the wrong forum...any help is appreciated.

[Stumpy]

Originally Posted by kmk42019

I am new to this whole band thing. Being playing with some guys for almost 6 months and want to start doing shows. So we either need to hire a sound guy to do our sound or buy a P.A. I dont know anything about P.A.'s so if you do recommend a P.A. system what do you recommend(speakers, amp, etc.) and how do you run it? Im sorry if this is in the wrong forum...any help is appreciated.

In my humble opinion...hire a sound guy...it is a great deal less stressful when you are going on stage and know that someone with good gear will handle all of the sounds issues and you just have to play.

chasing down a buzz (in the cords ) can drive you insane and doing it during a show when you are supposed to be the paid entertainment is a pain.

JMHO

[derrico1]

What makes sense depends on the kind of gigs you have. From the OP, I'm guessing you won't be playing 2000 seat auditoriums right away. If you're playing short casuals for low/no pay at tiny venues, hiring a soundman might be an unreasonable luxury unless someone in the band has a trust fund.

In that situation, borrowing/renting from friends a few times might be the way to go, so you can get a feel for your PA needs/wants before committing to a big purchase. When you're ready to buy, take someone with you who knows what's what, and look for good deals on used gear.

[kmk42019]

Originally Posted by derrico1

What makes sense depends on the kind of gigs you have. From the OP, I'm guessing you won't be playing 2000 seat auditoriums right away. If you're playing short casuals for low/no pay at tiny venues, hiring a soundman might be an unreasonable luxury unless someone in the band has a trust fund.

In that situation, borrowing/renting from friends a few times might be the way to go, so you can get a feel for your PA needs/wants before committing to a big purchase. When you're ready to buy, take someone with you who knows what's what, and look for good deals on used gear.

What kind of p.a. speakers would you recommend? Are floor monitors encouraged? How should we run the p.a.?? I know beginner questions but thats what I am when it comes to this.

[baba]

More info needed.

Type of music? Size of rooms you'll be playing? What does the band consist of and what is going through the PA? What is your budget?

With that I can help with some direction.

[mattsk42]

If you've got the money/are going to be making money, hire a sound guy. For multiple reasons.

Otherwise, you MAY be able to run it from stage, but I would still suggest getting a TRUSTED friend to run it if you can.

Go here: http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/ and read the LOUNGE and do LOTS of searches or just post your specific conditions and budget. It's overwhelming at first, but do enough research over there, and you'll figure it out. Definitely post your budget, band specifics, and sound goals FIRST, and then they can work with you.

[Stumpy]

If you are going to do the sound your self...

Mackie SRM450 (x2 minimum)
QSC 1801 (x2)
Use the in ear monitor system
I like the Mackie 24ch board.

[JKT]

yes if you're starting out doing smaller venues/clubs and the dough is limited, it makes moresense to do it yourself on some level.

If I were to be putting together a small system right now:

Powered speakers- hands down on average more efficient at the small system level and you can often get a higher power rating to your FOH per dollar spent. If you can swing 4, they often make great monitors too. Not to mention the redundancy factor- if something goes down you're not dead in the water as with a conventional power amp design system.

2 powered speakers and a good powered sub can be capable of some surprising performance results in a variety of situations.

Mixers- Lots of good deals out there used and new. Get more channels than you think you will need.

If it comes down to one good EQ budget wise, use it on your monitors for now. Lots of mixers with built in EQ's. Some good, some not so good.

Do not screw around with cheap crappy cables of any kind, ever.

Get as much of this stuff on wheels as possible. At Home depot or Lowes you will find a startling array of tool boxes and equipment boxes on wheels. Usually made by Stanley,etc,
these are well made and 1/4 the price of the same type of gear made by SKB, Anvil,etc. I have 2 tool boxes that look like coolers with retractable handles and 2 wheels on the other end. They hold all the patchcords, extension cords, mike cables, adaptors, pedals, you name it.

Go to wal-mart, etc and in the luggage section you should find a collapsible 2 wheeler. Buy it.

Cheap microphones sound cheap. Don't do it.

JKT

[modulusman]

If you are just starting out you would be better off hiring a soundman. If you are really interested in doing this yourself spend time on sound forums reading and asking questions. As Mattsk42 mentioned prosoundweb is a good place to start also look at the live sound board at harmonycentral. PA gear is pretty pricey and it will take a minumum of at least $2000.00 to get something that doesn't sound like crap.

[iriegnome]

Interisting situation. You need a Sound guy to run a PA that you do not have. Sometimes it is much better to rent a PA/Soundguy than it is to buy everything and run it yourself. Depends on the size of the venues and how often you play and how much you make. I know we have put up a couple of hundred dollars for a sound company that suck ass and we have spent a bunch of money to run it ourselves. You have to look at every gig differently. Hopefully you can find a soundguy to stick with the band. That is what we have. He is a full part of the band. We play, he is there.

[kesslari]

It's really a pain to do your own sound. Makes the gig more stressful and less enjoyable, at least for whoever gets *stuck* with the task (and generally, despite all the "we'll all help" stuff, one person gets *stuck*).

Sometimes a soundman becomes a regular, almost an extension of the band.
It's a nice thing when that works...

[lonote]

Find a used PA, set it up in your practice space and learn how to run it, it ain't rocket science but it isn't easy, either. If you're a "just starting" band, you'll likely play small venues for very little money for a while...probably longer than you think. Hiring a soundman and his PA system to play the corner bar is a losing proposition. When you get to playing larger venues and making more money, then you can think about hiring a soundman and PA.

[iriegnome]

Originally Posted by lonote

Find a used PA, set it up in your practice space and learn how to run it, it ain't rocket science but it isn't easy, either. If you're a "just starting" band, you'll likely play small venues for very little money for a while...probably longer than you think. Hiring a soundman and his PA system to play the corner bar is a losing proposition. When you get to playing larger venues and making more money, then you can think about hiring a soundman and PA.

I mostly agree. A entry line PA should not set anyone back much. Great to know what you are talking about with your own PA. Sometimes it may cost your whole night for the PA, but it may well be worth it.

[derrico1]

Originally Posted by kmk42019

What kind of p.a. speakers would you recommend? Are floor monitors encouraged? How should we run the p.a.?? I know beginner questions but thats what I am when it comes to this.

Hard to say without knowing your genre(s), the size venues you expect to play, and the band's instrumentation & number of vocalists.

A few constants for bands just starting out that don't have PA experience:

1. Get help from someone who knows what they're doing when buying and setting up the PA. If you buy the wrong things, or pieces that don't work well together, it will be harder to run the PA. If someone who knows his/her way around teaches you to set the system up and run it the first couple of gigs, you should be able to run a set-and-forget PA after that, if your system is simple enough. Which brings us to. . .
2. Keep the system simple. If you don't know how to work them, multis, compressors, driveracks, and 31-band eqs are going to get you in more trouble than they get you out of. To start, you'll want a mixer w/ appropriate # of channels, a power amp, speakers, and cabling. Unless your genre absolutely demands it, don't get the other stuff until you have basic PA skills.
3. Run as few channels as possible. If you're starting small, chances are you don't need all the instruments in the PA. Again, it's hard to be specific here without knowing what you're playing (doom? acoustic rock? piano jazz?); but, if you can get away with just having vocals in the PA until you get gigs at larger places, you'll probably sound better for less money, and drastically reduce the number of things that can go wrong while you're running your own sound.
4. Buy the cheapest solution, not the cheaper problem. With new & inexperienced bands, money is often a constraint, but don't let it force you to buy mistakes -- peaky & feedback-prone microphones, hissy or unreliable mixing boards, nasal or harsh cabinets, highly colored amps that aren't properly designed to serve as PA amps. Buy used, buy stuff that's built decently, and designed to be used as you intend.

[NickyBass]

I played around MD, DC and the surrounding area. If you're doing an original band where you will be splitting the night with a few other bands, the club will most likely have a PA with a sound guy. Make a list of clubs that you want to play, and give them a call. Ask if they have a PA and if they provide a sound guy.

If you're doing medium sized cover rooms, then I would suggest at least calling a few sound companies. I played in a cover band and we hired a sound crew and a light crew for every gig. It really made a difference.

If you are still on the fence, hire a sound company for one gig and see what you think. Or you could go to a club early, and watch a band set up their own PA. It is a pain, but sometimes it makes sense to have one---then again, sometimes it's better to let someone else worry about sound.

[Stegre]

My rule of thumb has been if the gig is big enough to warrant a sound person, one will be provided for you (along with the PA).

Otherwise, for last 10+ years I have used a Yamaha O1v digital programmable mixer with scene memories. It has everything on it and can be set up in a flash. Also Yamaha power amps and speakers. For most corporate and wedding gigs, a single 15 with compression horn (no piezo) per side is sufficient.

A lot of the problem with running sound is due to how the bands set up and do things. Loud stage volume is a killer. Get a low level on stage and amplify eveything. Isolate the drum set with a shield or play electronic drums. ALWAYS MATCHING VOCAL MICS. Alway use good quality cables. Do that and you have 90% of the problem solved.

All the instrumentalists should strive to get the best signal to noise ratio equipment possible. For guitar I use a Yamaha DG80-12 digital modelling amp, and a custom Variax with a Pod XT live. The amp is totally quiet until I hit it with a signal. no buzz, no hum.

So for me, I love when there is a good soundman there (that I didn't have to pay) and I like it when I know the band is sounding great without one.

Stefan - Cover band 101
www.coverbandbook.com

[ric1312]

Originally Posted by kmk42019

I am new to this whole band thing. Being playing with some guys for almost 6 months and want to start doing shows. So we either need to hire a sound guy to do our sound or buy a P.A. I dont know anything about P.A.'s so if you do recommend a P.A. system what do you recommend(speakers, amp, etc.) and how do you run it? Im sorry if this is in the wrong forum...any help is appreciated.

IMO buy your own PA, if the whole band chips in they are cheap. For a band in clubs all you need is couple of speakers on a stick and a pair of monitor and a PA head and or mixer.

Learn how to carve frequencies for feedback, check the stage mix and the FOH. Running your own sound will insure that it sounds good and you won't get the F knobs from a house sound guy, which trust me, will happen more often than not.

I use Bose L1 systems, much better than a PA but not something your going to buy in a band just starting out.

When I had a PA I used the yamaha stuff, they have some nice PA heads for decent prices that are really durable. As far as speakers the best ones on sticks that I've heard for smaller PAs are the JBL EON's.

You'll need monitors depending on how small the club and or if the guitards jack up the stage volume with half stacks cranked. With a regular PA in a small place the size of a corner bar it's often better just not to use monitors and use the reflections off the walls for monitoring of vocals, or just one monitor for vocals in the center.

Often times monitors can be your biggest feedback culprit. It's easy to get the FOH sound good and loud without feeding back, but once you add the foldback and backline amps it starts getting more difficult. IME the smaller the club the harder it is to set up a PA if you are playing in louder type band, because the frequencies bounce around the room more back at you and into your micsk, so you will have to carve a lot of frequencies.