"Pay the Band" Union Group

CapnSev · #1 10-20-2008, 09:24 PM

Here's something interesting that has recently formed in my area: An advocacy group of musicians taking beef with free shows. There is a rash of rip-off venues/gigs in Salt Lake, and this blog is really, really pissing some of them off. I think it's a fantastic idea, and thought I'd share it with you guys. The blog is still pretty fresh, but I know a lot of really good musicians who have hopped on board this thing, and it's already sunk one non-paying gig that I'm aware of.

http://paytheband.blogspot.com/

Yes, I do understand that free shows are a necessity sometimes, especially for original bands. I'm not knocking that. I think the free show decision is up to the band's discretion however, like a charity move or something. My beef is with those organizers who have the idea that all musicians are a charity service, and with the bands that take these things just because it's a chance to play, or buy the "exposure" garbage.

GigDoggy · #2 10-21-2008, 06:27 AM

Hi.

Great blog!
Nice to see someone speaking out in such a straight forward manner about this.
I've read a couple of articles and loved your input on the matter.
Very good read. Keep up the good work.

In my blog I covered a topic on pay-to-play gigs and got some rather nice insights from bands.

Check it out:
http://gigdoggy.wordpress.com/2008/0...-play-at-gigs/

Jason Hollar · #3 10-21-2008, 06:44 AM

Whenever anyone tells me it will be lots of exposure -- I tell them yeah -- you can die from exposure!

jezzamac · #4 10-21-2008, 07:05 AM

Another scam is "band competitions" something I have steered away from for years but my son's band has entered a few recently. Let's just say that all my doubts bave been confirmed. Only one seemed on the up and up. All the others seem to just cater for mates or to be an excuse for the venue (usually pubs) to reap often healthy rewards with the promise of a carrot at the end which is usally sourced through contra deals etc. Maybe I'm just being cynical. My advice is that if you're going to enter a band comp never expect to get a direct financial reward.

threshar · #5 10-21-2008, 08:13 AM

or the "festivals" places are putting on. There will be 102909483982 people and we'll be advertising using our massive email list(!) and it'll be super awesome, its at [small bar] and all you gotta do is sell 100 tickets!

Getting gigs is a royal pain. We've been trying to get a booking agent to handle it (all of us in the band have jobs & lives beyond the band) but we've run into the problem of the people we've talkd to want you to already have a steady gig schedule before they'll handle it for you. Uhh dude, thats why we want to hire you - we want you to deal with calling all these damned venues. If we had a steady stream of gigs we wouldn't need your services now would we?

oh well.

eotpr · #6 10-21-2008, 08:57 AM

Exposure? I think that the club needs exposure so I will go there and eat and drink for free and I will tell my firends about the place and maybe they will come in and pay. I bet that would not fly.

Craig Garfinkel · #7 10-21-2008, 09:10 AM

GREAT blog...and I'm now subscribed. This should be a nation-wide movement. No musician should ever have to play for free, and it is totally unacceptable for bands to be subjected to any kind of pay-to-play scheme.

CapnSev · #8 10-21-2008, 10:05 AM

Just as an update:

If you have read the blog, you will have seen the article on "Zoolights". "Zoolights" is a festival that the zoo does every Christmas. Basically, the zoo is open late in the middle of winter, and all the animal pens and everything are lit up to the extreme. It's relatively new, and getting more and more popular every year. Well, they have a barn for people to go and see/dance to live music, however they won't pay the band. Long story short, due to this advocacy thing, and the influx of e-mails and phone calls to the PR girl, the zoo has cancelled the live music at "Zoolights" this year.

I would have rather them pay the band, but if it has to go, it has to go. This stuff works when you have strength in numbers and let promoters know that this crap doesn't fly.

lonote · #9 10-21-2008, 10:33 AM

I just wonder what would happen if for, let's say 6 months, no band ANYWHERE would play a "for profit" event for free? Better yet, bands would agree to play for free and not show up at the events promoted by parasites. I bet things would change dramatically with a scant 6 month educational period. The vermin who live off the sweat of musicians might have to tighten up their belts a bit...just like the musicians they've been screwing for years. I simply can't believe how widespread this "play for free" or "pay to play" nonsense has become.

CapnSev · #10 10-21-2008, 10:36 AM

^ Hence the reason I started the thread.

This stuff can be eliminated, and it finally is starting to be here. This blog has two (not small) events already sunk because musicians have finally ganged up and said no.

fretlessman71 · #11 10-21-2008, 10:40 AM

I don't agree with simply not showing up where you agreed to play just because the gig is a freebie - that does little more than justify many promoter's perceptions that musicians are flakes anyway, and why should they agree to pay someone who has a 50% chance of not showing up in the first place? Although I understand your passion and desire to change things.

I'd stick with making it very clear - when people talk about the exposure you band is going to get, simply repeat the following phrase to the person in question:

"I'm sorry, Mr/Mrs. so-and-so; we're worth a minimum of $XX.00 a head, and we don't play for less than that. Ever."

ProfGumby · #12 10-21-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fretlessman71

I don't agree with simply not showing up where you agreed to play just because the gig is a freebie - that does little more than justify many promoter's perceptions that musicians are flakes anyway, and why should they agree to pay someone who has a 50% chance of not showing up in the first place? Although I understand your passion and desire to change things.

I'd stick with making it very clear - when people talk about the exposure you band is going to get, simply repeat the following phrase to the person in question:

"I'm sorry, Mr/Mrs. so-and-so; we're worth a minimum of $XX.00 a head, and we don't play for less than that. Ever."

The only problem with that scenario is for every good band that has some integrity and wants to actually get paid to show up and rock the house, there are 1,000 douchebags that will play for free at the drop of a hat!

That is also the same in another field and why I stopped doing seminars in that field. Too many idiots willing to work for free....

CapnSev · #13 10-21-2008, 10:45 AM

I would never tell someone I was going to play their show, and then not show up. I think that was just said hypothetically. Neither of these events were cancelled because of that reason, they were cancelled due to protest.

lonote · #14 10-21-2008, 10:50 AM

The problem is that there are a lot of naive souls out there who actually buy into the whole "think of the exposure you'll get" or "think of the merchandise you'll be able to sell" line of bovine excrement. Worse yet there are morons who, for some bizarre reason, think that it is their duty to draw audiences into these joints so the venues can remain open...presumably to screw more of their brother musicians. There is a strange culture that has grown to think screwing musicians (i.e. themselves and others) is perfectly okay. It will take a long time to tear down these preposterous thoughts. Kudos to you, amigo, for fighting the good fight.

txbasschik · #15 10-21-2008, 10:59 AM

Subscribed!!!

If it isn't a benefit, I need to get paid. Period.

I have a gig coming up that may end up with us not getting paid, or us doing a LOT of work for practically no money. I've already had that "but its great exposure!" b.s. to the point that I will frakkin' hurl if I get offered that crap again.

If the venue or the promoter or whatever is making money, then, by God, so am I, or I'm not playing.

Cherie

fretlessman71 · #16 10-21-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfGumby

The only problem with that scenario is for every good band that has some integrity and wants to actually get paid to show up and rock the house, there are 1,000 douchebags that will play for free at the drop of a hat!

That is also the same in another field and why I stopped doing seminars in that field. Too many idiots willing to work for free....

There is that danger. So you reached your limit with doing seminars; at what point will you reach the same point in playing professionally?

fretlessman71 · #17 10-21-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapnSev

I would never tell someone I was going to play their show, and then not show up. I think that was just said hypothetically.

You mean they were VENTING. And I understand completely.

The problem with refusing to play for free, as stated above, is that eventually they WILL get someone to play for free, and more likely than not they'll be mediocre at best and embarrassing at worst. And a promoter, faced with what to do after this, could go either of 3 ways:

They could come to their senses and start coming up with real money to pay bands.
They could choose to not have live music anymore at their events.
They could decide that "Hey, entertainment is entertainment, and they were free - I'll just keep doing what I'm doing."

So the question is... how do you gently guide promoters away from #2 and #3?

roberthelpus · #18 10-21-2008, 11:13 AM

Am I missing something. I don't see anything on that blog that speaks about an actual organization other than to state it's name. Nor is their anything concerning recruiting, meetings, activities etc.

fretlessman71 · #19 10-21-2008, 11:15 AM

I don't think they ever intended to be an actual organization... it's just a blog about musicians who are fed up with promoters, isn't it?

roberthelpus · #20 10-21-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

PAY THE BAND is a core advocacy group made up of musicians, music lovers and people with a sense of fairness, who believe that performing and composing musicians have a right to earn a living. We believe that all too often, individuals and businesses seek to advantage themselves using live music, but do not want to pay for it. Therefore PAY THE BAND seeks to spread awareness, partner with sympathetic business institutions and gather information in order to advance fair and regular compensation for working musicians. "A 'thank you' doesn't pay the fiddler" - Gaelic Proverb

That and the original poster implies that it is an organization.