Play for Pay promotions

[Flyingfrets]

PAY TO PLAY = "Don't bother with the KY, just bend over. We're doin' ya dry"

[Runnerman]

Read this and send to all your friends....

http://www.neverpaytoplay.com/

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by Bass Viking

Hmmm, I would think that bands who pay to play hurt the scene for all musicians.

Not really ... at least, I don't think so. Those bars/venues/promoters that do PTP don't HIRE bands ... so it doesn't affect the pool of paying gigs very much. And those bands willing to PTP aren't competing for the paying gigs I'm after.

[Clef_de_fa]

Everyone agains it ... are you all playing gig as a cover band ?

Also, where I live, it seems to be the norm for every event. Like I saw a comedian and the show lasted like 2h ... but then he was on a great story and asked if he could continue and extand the show for an hour or two... obviously the place was rented for his show. So I think he paid the extra to continue his show by shewing on his profit.

And it isn't the theater that did all the promotion, in fact I never saw a theater promote who they will get. It is more the band, comedian or artist or their promo agent that talk about where they will do their next show. Unless it is something organized and paid by the city.

[matthewbrown]

If no one wants to pay to hear you play, I suggest finding a better audience than you'd find in a club. Perhaps a church?

[Smokin' Toaster]

You're worthless. In fact, in order for me to endure you and your band, you'll have to pay me. You suck so bad I feel the need to abuse you, demean you, and treat you with the least respect of anyone who will be in my establishment the day you play. I pay dishwashers, garbage men, bartenders, bouncers, janitors - everyone, but not you; you have to pay me to work here.

Feel insulted? Well that's exactly what anyone asking you to pay to play is telling you.

I play in a variety / blues / classic rock / wedding band. I ask 100-200 or more per man depending on the gig. I heard a reply that applies to any objection to the cost of the band, and I believe it has been posted here on TB before:

"I'll tell you what - Call your plumber, and ask him how much he will charge to bring 5 plumbers to your house on Saturday night from 7-2 (time includes set-up and tear-down). Bring me that quote and I'll work for HALF of it. Deal?"

Are you as a musican worth less than HALF of what a plumber makes?

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Toaster

You're worthless. In fact, in order for me to endure you and your band, you'll have to pay me. You suck so bad I feel the need to abuse you, demean you, and treat you with the least respect of anyone who will be in my establishment the day you play. I pay dishwashers, garbage men, bartenders, bouncers, janitors - everyone, but not you; you have to pay me to work here.

Feel insulted? Well that's exactly what anyone asking you to pay to play is telling you.

I play in a variety / blues / classic rock / wedding band. I ask 100-200 or more per man depending on the gig. I heard a reply that applies to any objection to the cost of the band, and I believe it has been posted here on TB before:

"I'll tell you what - Call your plumber, and ask him how much he will charge to bring 5 plumbers to your house on Saturday night from 7-2 (time includes set-up and tear-down). Bring me that quote and I'll work for HALF of it. Deal?"

Are you as a musican worth less than HALF of what a plumber makes?

You are only doing cover ... which is like a juke box, so yeah it is work.

But when you play only original music ... it is perceive more like expressing your art, you aren't working.

Also ... you have to be confidant in your music to be able to sell the quota and then make a little profit.

Also, one day, the guy playing in a original band, if he has the whole package to sell ( good looking, catchy pop music, dance move, fashion ) you may be a star while the guy only playing cover will always only play cover for 100 ~ 200 $

When you are in a original band, you have to think it is investing on your future.

[DwaynieAD]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

Everyone agains it ... are you all playing gig as a cover band ?

Also, where I live, it seems to be the norm for every event. Like I saw a comedian and the show lasted like 2h ... but then he was on a great story and asked if he could continue and extand the show for an hour or two... obviously the place was rented for his show. So I think he paid the extra to continue his show by shewing on his profit.

And it isn't the theater that did all the promotion, in fact I never saw a theater promote who they will get. It is more the band, comedian or artist or their promo agent that talk about where they will do their next show. Unless it is something organized and paid by the city.

original band. never sold a ticket, never payed to play. have to turn down gigs because we get too many offers. get payed. getting radio play.

you sound like one of these "promoters"

everything my band is is exactly what these pro-presale guys say is impossible

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by DwaynieAD

original band. never sold a ticket, never payed to play. have to turn down gigs because we get too many offers. get payed. getting radio play.

you sound like one of these "promoters"

everything my band is is exactly what these pro-presale guys say is impossible

I just report what I have witness where I live. I'm also an accountant so yeah I see both side of the coin.

do you really think any big band or star like say Lady Gaga is paid by the theater where she will do a show ? It is the other way around, the tickets paid for renting the theater and the staff , the band and promoter everything else is profit. Because you are obviously here to see/hear Lady Gaga ... not to drink a beer with you friend in a bar that happen to have a band instead of a juke box.

Of course in a bar where you can drink/eat the whole time and you are here to be somewhat of a juke box, it will be the bar that pays you. You are called back if you made the bar a lot of money.

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

Everyone agains it ... are you all playing gig as a cover band ?

Nope

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

You are only doing cover ... which is like a juke box, so yeah it is work.

But when you play only original music ... it is perceive more like expressing your art, you aren't working.

Also ... you have to be confidant in your music to be able to sell the quota and then make a little profit.

Also, one day, the guy playing in a original band, if he has the whole package to sell ( good looking, catchy pop music, dance move, fashion ) you may be a star while the guy only playing cover will always only play cover for 100 ~ 200 $

When you are in a original band, you have to think it is investing on your future.

Wrong

Originally Posted by DwaynieAD

original band. never sold a ticket, never payed to play. have to turn down gigs because we get too many offers. get payed. getting radio play.

you sound like one of these "promoters"

everything my band is is exactly what these pro-presale guys say is impossible

Same here.

Have 2 cd's out, and a 3rd in the works. We play events, festivals, and open for national acts. When we play bars we throw in a few covers.

[Snarf]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

You are only doing cover ... which is like a juke box, so yeah it is work.

But when you play only original music ... it is perceive more like expressing your art, you aren't working.

Also ... you have to be confidant in your music to be able to sell the quota and then make a little profit.

Also, one day, the guy playing in a original band, if he has the whole package to sell ( good looking, catchy pop music, dance move, fashion ) you may be a star while the guy only playing cover will always only play cover for 100 ~ 200 $

When you are in a original band, you have to think it is investing on your future.

Being an artist is "working." Writing, recording, performing original music is "work." If you're paying to play, you are making yourself into a willing rape victim. Also, you're making it harder for professional musicians to make a living by undercutting them. Do tradesmen work for free with the idea that they're "investing in their future?" No, that's ridiculous as a plumber, welder, software engineer, sign maker, etc, and it's ridiculous as a musician as well. "Investing in your future" is code for "Pay us for the privilege of working for us." Insanity.

[bassfran]

Don't support ANY club or show that doesn't compensate the bands.
Period.

I don't care if you're just starting out and need the 'exposure'.

As a smarter person than I once said, "People die of exposure."

Clubs will come and go but the exploitation of musicians has been going on forever. We don't have to stand for it.

And please make sure to support the places that are doing it right so they don't go out of business.

The gigs you save may be your own.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bassfran

Don't support ANY club or show that doesn't compensate the bands.
Period.

I don't care if you're just starting out and need the 'exposure'.

As a smarter person than I once said, "People die of exposure."

Clubs will come and go but the exploitation of musicians has been going on forever. We don't have to stand for it.

And please make sure to support the places that are doing it right so they don't go out of business.

The gigs you save may be your own.

The new young bands want to play out so bad, paying to play or playing for free seems like a Golden Opportunity to them.

I wish this wasn't the case.

Blue

[Snarf]

Originally Posted by bluewine

The new young bands want to play out so bad, paying to play or playing for free seems like a Golden Opportunity to them.

I wish this wasn't the case.

Blue

These kids need some guidance. They don't know anything about business.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

You are only doing cover ... which is like a juke box, so yeah it is work.

But when you play only original music ... it is perceive more like expressing your art, you aren't working.

Wrong, ignorant and disrespectful. Try earning a living playing original music and then tell us again how it's not work.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by Snarf

These kids need some guidance. They don't know anything about business.

+1 They shouldn't have to get screwed to learn about the business.

It is amazing how some people seem to be wrong about every almost every single thing they post. I'm not naming names, but ...

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

Wrong, ignorant and disrespectful. Try earning a living playing original music and then tell us again how it's not work.

I think he was saying playing originals is not work.

Blue

[dvlmusic]

I just did one of these a couple of months ago. The bandleader decided that this was his only chance to play at this club, so he forked over the $400 for 40 tickets (no money out of my pocket). There were 7 bands on the bill that night, so you do the math. We played for 35 minutes at 6:00pm - I don't even want to think about what time the last band started.

The whole things played out like the world's most expensive open mic night. When I asked if there were any beers for the band I was told by the Stage Manager that usually clubs don't like to offer the bands alcohol until after the gig so they don't get wasted before they play, but no there was no beer. He then told me that I "when you've played a few more gigs you'll understand..."

For real? DO I need to defend my career to this snotty s**t? Anyway, the point of the story was that the club had an incredibly profitable night, and the bands gained nothing. I agree with all the points that were previously made:
1) The fans that show up only tend to stay for "their" band so you don't really get exposed to new people
2) The "this will look great on our resume" argument doesn't work: no club cares where you've played, just if you can bring in people who will drink
3) The club generally makes out with a profitable weekday night where as the band gets next to nothing.

I don't expect to make a ton of dough when I play, but I also don't want to fork over my money for the gift of playing at your club. This should be a mutually beneficial agreement: the club and the band should each be responsible for 50% of the promotion, etc. It's not one or the other...

[jive1]

Originally Posted by Bass Viking

Hmmm, I would think that bands who pay to play hurt the scene for all musicians.

IMO, it's like saying crack dealers on the street corner affect the sales at liquor stores. There's probably some effect, but in the end, it's different vendors selling to different clients.

[Runnerman]

Pay to play is not all about the club. It's an outside company that rents the venue from the club owner. It then forces the unsuspecting, typically young, bands to sell x number of tickets at an outrageous price. They end up buying the majority of their tickets to get a "better time slot". The band gets back $1 per ticket sold, the company gets the rest. SCAM, SCAM, SCAM!!!!!

Club owner makes money from rental plus beverage sales and usually these take place on off nights or in clubs that can't fill the place anyways. SCAM, SCAM, SCAM!!!!

Stealing money from poor young artists is wrong no matter how you look at it. NEVER PAY TO PLAY!