Play for Pay promotions

[Smokin' Toaster]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

You are only doing cover ... which is like a juke box, so yeah it is work.

But when you play only original music ... it is perceive more like expressing your art, you aren't working.

Also ... you have to be confidant in your music to be able to sell the quota and then make a little profit.

Also, one day, the guy playing in a original band, if he has the whole package to sell ( good looking, catchy pop music, dance move, fashion ) you may be a star while the guy only playing cover will always only play cover for 100 ~ 200 $

When you are in a original band, you have to think it is investing on your future.

Only doing covers? EXCUUUUUUUSE ME!!!!

Pretty large opinion you have of yourself. You go for your big "one day". By the time you make it, or more likelly realize that you will never make it, I'll have made tens of thousands of dollars... $100 or $200 at a time. You need to get yourself a bag of chips. You still won't be "all that" but you'll at least have a bag of chips.

Your originals are so great you're trying to justify paying someone to listen to them. What's wrong with that picture??

Get real.

[repoman]

[soulman969]

It's total ******** and it may trap younger less experienced bands but the guys who have been around the block a few times would laugh in the faces of a promoter who asked them to sell tickets in order to be paid.

I'm not paid to bring people into a club or an event. I'm paid to entertain them and keep them there spending money on food, drinks, and tips for the waitstaff. If I'm good or the band is good I (we) will bring in people but not because we sold them a ticket to come. A simple announcement about the gig and an invite is usually more than enough.

My advice to the younger guys and new bands is to get good at what you do and people will want to come to hear you. Selling tickets to your family and friends is just like the old old old life insurance dodge of recruiting a new agent to do just that knowing that he won't stick with it and the agent who recruited him then ends up with his clientele.

Promoters and club owners take a risk when they open there doors just like the guy who buys the McDonalds franchise. If I work for the promoter as an entertainer I expect to get paid just like would if I worked at "Mickey Ds" where I wouldn't have a a quota of cheeseburgers and fries to sell just for an opportunity to collect my paycheck.

"Pay to Play" is a royal screw job.

[soulman969]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

You are only doing cover ... which is like a juke box, so yeah it is work.

But when you play only original music ... it is perceive more like expressing your art, you aren't working.

Also ... you have to be confidant in your music to be able to sell the quota and then make a little profit.

Also, one day, the guy playing in a original band, if he has the whole package to sell ( good looking, catchy pop music, dance move, fashion ) you may be a star while the guy only playing cover will always only play cover for 100 ~ 200 $

When you are in a original band, you have to think it is investing on your future.

Yeah good luck with that Clef. Let us know all about the view from the top when you make it big, haha.

The music business eats it's young. Or haven't you realized that yet? I'll take the talented blues artist at the local blues club and his musicianship over Justin Bieber any day.

IMHO he's far more honest in the way he ply's his trade.

[Calaverasgrande]

Fact is in many parts of the country, the only gigs available to young bands are pay to play gigs. I have been on both sides of this. As a young musician, I fell for the hype. Me and my bandmates flogged as many tickets as we could, then ended up paying for the last dozen or so out of our pocket. That was pretty dear money to a bunch of kids in their late teens and early 20's!
Then when the show came around, the "headliner" utterly failed to attract any substantial audience. The club manager was angry as hell. He ran around the club berating the first 3 acts on the bill about not bringing in enough people. But we had all sold (or bought) our fair share of tickets. The headliner just didnt have much word of mouth draw, and both the club and headliner utterly failed to do any radio promos, or large format flyers.
That is the flaw in "pay to play". Once clubs start doing it, they essentially have given up on real booking. They may book one or two real shows a month, the rest of the time it's pay for play. The promotions budget almost always gets slashed including reimbursements to promoters.
What really sucks is that it fosters a situation where each band has a clique that comes with them, watches them play, and leaves immediately afterward. It puts bands in contention as well. So it has a chilling effect on the scene in general.
When I have worked at clubs, both as a promoter, sound guy, door guy and manager, the club basically sank or swam on how good our booking was.
When we had good bookings we were able to pay all the bands (even the opener) well. When we had bad bookings, nobody got paid, and the staff that worked under the table were comped beers.
Either way the club got its cut. Most every club I have worked in makes it operating costs off of the bar. Any club that relies on door for operating costs is either an all ages venue, or going out of business fast.
Pay for play is a desperate act of a failing business. It is not a sustainable business model.

[DwaynieAD]

Originally Posted by soulman969

It's total ******** and it may trap younger less experienced bands but the guys who have been around the block a few times would laugh in the faces of a promoter who asked them to sell tickets in order to be paid.

I'm not paid to bring people into a club or an event. I'm paid to entertain them and keep them there spending money on food, drinks, and tips for the waitstaff. If I'm good or the band is good I (we) will bring in people but not because we sold them a ticket to come. A simple announcement about the gig and an invite is usually more than enough.

My advice to the younger guys and new bands is to get good at what you do and people will want to come to hear you. Selling tickets to your family and friends is just like the old old old life insurance dodge of recruiting a new agent to do just that knowing that he won't stick with it and the agent who recruited him then ends up with his clientele.

Promoters and club owners take a risk when they open there doors just like the guy who buys the McDonalds franchise. If I work for the promoter as an entertainer I expect to get paid just like would if I worked at "Mickey Ds" where I wouldn't have a a quota of cheeseburgers and fries to sell just for an opportunity to collect my paycheck.

"Pay to Play" is a royal screw job.

A had a "promoter" one time tell me it's the venue's job to provide a place for bands to play. I laughed in his face and told him that a venue's job is to entertain it's patrons, my band is the product the venue is selling and I'm not selling myself that would make me a whore.

[Raymeous]

Man that's hard to read being in that big block of text.

"Pay to Play" is a scam of sorts where the bands tend to lose out.

Pay to play? I already paid. I paid plenty thank you. Years and years, heck decades, of practicing and playing out in crappy bars and dealing with a 1000 egomaniacs and drama queens, broken gear, broken dreams, and sore backs from lugging truck loads of equipment. Yeah I've already paid even before showing up at your little dive bar. Where do you think all of this equipment came from, the Easter Bunny?

[rtslinger]

Originally Posted by Bass Viking

Hmmm, I would think that bands who pay to play hurt the scene for all musicians.

+1000

[Clef_de_fa]

A bar or venue doesn't owe anybody a place to play music to make money. But then the bar/venue want more than a juke box they want some entertainment, so the bar/venue hire a band so you provide a service, a show.

But you also have bigger act (let say like Rush) that want to play in a city during their tour where renting a theater comes-in. They are putting their own show, so renting is a normal thing in the long list of expense of touring.