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  #561  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca View Post
Of course, all of this is irrelevant if you play in a church with an upright piano, at least up here in the snow belt. I'm usually pretty happy if I can find an octave where we can get within a semitones of each other!
I used to have a spinet before I bought my Yamaha S-08, and tuning with that thing was a nightmare as well.
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  #562  
Old 12-13-2012, 07:00 PM
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Just an update my friends.
I posted awhile ago that I was back on the praise team at Hope Community Church in Manitowoc WI well, last Sunday was my frist time on and first time using my G&L L2500 Frettless through my Genz Benz 6.0 2x12T cabs. PTL I did not hhit a sour note all morning!
Thanks for your support and prayers!
Love & Peace Merry Christmas!
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  #563  
Old 12-13-2012, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by theduke1 View Post
...last Sunday was my frist time on and first time using my G&L L2500 Frettless through my Genz Benz 6.0 2x12T cabs. PTL I did not hit a sour note all morning!
Thanks for your support and prayers!
Love & Peace Merry Christmas!
Nice. Congratulations!
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  #564  
Old 12-14-2012, 03:16 AM
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@theLimeyBrit,

You're getting some excellent advice here regarding what to look out for (and not). I would like to emphasize look at your requirements and your setting/situation. Our church laid out £10k (and that is a lot for our church) on a system that is still sounding rubbish after two years of being in because the guys in charge are still trying to make (for example) the low B on a 5-er sound like a cello playing in the upper registers. You have our thoughts and prayers on this one. All the best for next week.

M. <><
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  #565  
Old 12-14-2012, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by theLimeyBrit View Post
Excellent advice Samsound, and I am thinking along those lines. I am concerned with how to defend those requirements in the face of potential opposition from someone who doesn't understand them and thinks we sound fine as we are.
You can budget some time and energy towards educating them, but for the majority of your presentation, I would try to stick to terms and concepts they already appreciate. IME, it's generally easier to present a topic in a way that satisfies the other person's objections, than to win them over to an opposing position.

Talk about fiscal responsibility, and the importance of making prudent purchases that will last. Talk about the current problems with the monitors, that compromise the sound people's attempts to make the pastor heard.

Another thing that I would want to talk to them about, is the importance of a professional installation, with a small budget for some training. This is based on your comment about putting elements other than the band in the monitors. This is just plain wrong, and indicates either a messed-up audio installation, or an uneducated sound crew.

Tell them that it's better to invest in people, than in equipment. Tell them that a good installer will be happy to do hands-on training, and will get a better result from a smaller hardware investment. This should be language that they understand.

You can also share our collective experience from the other side of the pond, with churches that throw thousand$$ into equipment and still get poor sound, because they neglect those aspects.

PS: if possible, meet with the sound people beforehand, and make sure that you present a unified front.
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  #566  
Old 12-14-2012, 07:22 AM
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Thanks everyone for your advice. The training aspect is not something I had considered. The last time we had a dedicated "sound guy" was a couple of years ago; after he graduated and moved away, nobody stepped up to replace him so since then the worship leader has run sound from the stage. If we could find a couple of people willing to invest some time in learning the new system as it is set up, that would be invaluable.

We recently redesigned our website, and one of its features is that the sermons are posted online each week. I would love to be able to include recordings of the music as well, and I think that is a feature that I can get the vestry to agree with. From there, it should be straightforward to outline the requirements of a system that will allow us to do that.

I'll let you know how things go on Tuesday.

@mkandolf, as long as you're updating your members list, please would you give me number 1174?
  #567  
Old 12-14-2012, 07:47 AM
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Of strings and avioms

Good morning all,
I'd like you insight on these two things. My choirs consist of acoustic guitar(s), mandolyn, keys (not always), electric drums, and various vocals. The level of musicianship varies which means that I perceive some holes that could be filled. Often, the guitars only strum chords. The piano always play melody with the right hand, and chords with the left (not much improve/fills).

So, I find I fill in the gaps in the upper register of my bass constantly. This is really enjoyable for me since it lets me play beyond the beat and pretend I'm a cellist or french horn player. I only have 4 string basses now and am considering getting a 6 string. Of course, the low B would help with those Eb keys, but the high C would stretch my range to allow for more melody lines between verses and refrains. Do any of you have/play 6 string basses? Do you find you use the upper register for chording and improve?

Aviom -
I have gone direct for many services with a couple problems. One, is that my passive Jazz just loses something that I think a preamp would provide. The tone can be thin and sterile at times. The other problem is that I'm at the mercy of the variety of inexperienced sound guys, and have to share a monitor with the drummer (electric drums, uses Aviom too). It seems that when the drummer thinks my bass is too loud, and so I lose my monitor. Plus, the sound guys often drop my monitor level too low. We have one more Aviom 16 that just sits there unused.

So, should I sell my 1985 G&L L2000 to fund a 6 string?
Should I stop using an amp as a monitor, get a preamp, go direct and try to use the Aviom?

Thanks!
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  #568  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theLimeyBrit

We recently redesigned our website, and one of its features is that the sermons are posted online each week. I would love to be able to include recordings of the music as well, and I think that is a feature that I can get the vestry to agree with. From there, it should be straightforward to outline the requirements of a system that will allow us to do that.
Recordings of the music bring rights and royalties issues into play that you may not have considered. Best to look before you leap on that one.
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  #569  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizedog
So, should I sell my 1985 G&L L2000 to fund a 6 string?
Should I stop using an amp as a monitor, get a preamp, go direct and try to use the Aviom?
It sounds like a 6'er would be something you would enjoy and use in your environment, so why not? It will expand your range, improve you as a player and allow you to do things within the context of your group that will fill out the sound. If you can work it out, I say go for it.

On the Avioms, I'd be careful... With soundguys like you've described, you run the risk of them sending something back to you that you really don't want going into your ears. Getting a blast of feedback directly through in-ear monitors could potentially damage your hearing permanently. We have a set of Avioms at my church, but no one uses them, which is fine by me. Our soundguy is a volunteer, and there's not one service that goes by that we don't have some kind of issue back at the booth. Just last weekend, we played a Christmas concert and at the end, he hit the wrong preset button and sent feedback through the system that would've blown out people's hearing had we been using in-ears.

I've used in ear systems in other venues quite successfully though, but I still won't touch them unless I know the sound person has a limiter on anything coming back to me. As musicians, our hearing is too important to leave to chance. Just a warning I guess.

Having used in-ear monitors, I know what you're talking about when you say your bass sounds thin. Having a preamp on your board can definitely help that. Also, I'm a firm believer in having a quality DI with me at all times, because you never know what a soundguy is going to have you plug into. I've been slowly trying DI/preamps and have tried a few now... They've all been super handy, and aren't just for when you're running ampless!

5sg.
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Last edited by fivestringgecko : 12-14-2012 at 09:31 AM.
  #570  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TodB View Post
Recordings of the music bring rights and royalties issues into play that you may not have considered. Best to look before you leap on that one.
Good point. We do play a number of original worship songs though, so there wouldn't be any issues with them. And the ability to record worship for "in-house" analysis and improvement would still be valuable.
  #571  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:18 AM
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Welcome theLimeyBrit to the thread! yes, your number is 1174.

Last 10 numbers added to here:

1165 Shep_Ramsey
1166 trbostic
1167 Beersurgeon
1168 tigerfire
1169 GAPendragon
1170 marcomatic
1171 slappa_dat_bass
1172 skamaniac
1173 mizedog
1174 theLimeyBrit
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  #572  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkandolf View Post
Welcome theLimeyBrit to the thread! yes, your number is 1174.

Last 10 numbers added to here:

1165 Shep_Ramsey
1166 trbostic
1167 Beersurgeon
1168 tigerfire
1169 GAPendragon
1170 marcomatic
1171 slappa_dat_bass
1172 skamaniac
1173 mizedog
1174 theLimeyBrit
Can I get a number? Thanks.
  #573  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizedog View Post
Do any of you have/play 6 string basses? Do you find you use the upper register for chording and improve?
Kinda, sorta have a 6 string. I just got another fiver but I tune in fifths so it has more range than a 6. I am just starting in with it but already I like the wider string spacing over my former SR505 which was otherwise a wonderful bass. The upper register is definitely better for chording, that is the reason I gave the fiver another try. I have an uptuned four that taught me that. I'm just a beginner when it comes to chording and while I am certain it is better for improv too I don't even rise to the level of beginner when it comes to improv.

Quote:
We have one more Aviom 16 that just sits there unused.
Sharing Avioms may save money but it completely defeats the purpose. Everyone needs to be able to hear the things that are most important to them and your needs will not match those of the drummer. You may even need to adjust your mix song by song. If your church has an unused Aviom then they aren't even saving money and you need to gently, persistently convince them to set it up for you. You need the mix that you can work with just like everyone else.

Ken
  #574  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by khutch View Post
Sharing Avioms may save money but it completely defeats the purpose. Everyone needs to be able to hear the things that are most important to them and your needs will not match those of the drummer. You may even need to adjust your mix song by song. If your church has an unused Aviom then they aren't even saving money and you need to gently, persistently convince them to set it up for you. You need the mix that you can work with just like everyone else.
+1

5sg.
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  #575  
Old 12-14-2012, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizedog View Post

Aviom -
I have gone direct for many services with a couple problems. One, is that my passive Jazz just loses something that I think a preamp would provide. The tone can be thin and sterile at times. The other problem is that I'm at the mercy of the variety of inexperienced sound guys, and have to share a monitor with the drummer (electric drums, uses Aviom too). It seems that when the drummer thinks my bass is too loud, and so I lose my monitor. Plus, the sound guys often drop my monitor level too low. We have one more Aviom 16 that just sits there unused.

So, should I sell my 1985 G&L L2000 to fund a 6 string?
Should I stop using an amp as a monitor, get a preamp, go direct and try to use the Aviom?

Thanks!
My advice would be to get a quality tube DI box. I own a REDDI myself and just use my amp as a monitor (either live/or as source for in-ears headphone mixer) onstage. And yeah the quality of the bass you're using will make a big difference too, but there's absolutely nothing better than knowing that wherever you play you'll get a consistently good tone (regardless of the experience of the sound person). My bias is towards the REDDI, but there are plenty of other great tube DI boxes out there.

As to the Aviom question? YES. If you've got Avioms, why aren't you using them instead of wedges? Especially if people are complaining about volume levels.

As for the 6-string? I'd say why not? If you can afford it that is.
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Last edited by english4bw : 12-14-2012 at 05:10 PM.
  #576  
Old 12-14-2012, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kbaxter26 View Post
Can I get a number? Thanks.
Sure! kbaxter26 your number is 1175.

Last ten numbers added:

1166 trbostic
1167 Beersurgeon
1168 tigerfire
1169 GAPendragon
1170 marcomatic
1171 slappa_dat_bass
1172 skamaniac
1173 mizedog
1174 theLimeyBrit
1175 kbaxter26
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  #577  
Old 12-14-2012, 07:52 PM
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mkandolf, can I have a number as well? I asked for one in post#457. Thanks!!!

Mizedog, sounds like you could really benefit from a 6-string. I've been using one since 1997. I don't use it like I should, because I don't play flashy at church. I play it because I like the way it feels and the sound of it and I get lots of compliments about it. It's killer. Most people ask about the looks, not what's in it that makes it sound so good.

PipeRain, I hope you are still following this. You can have a different looking instrument. If you are doing it for the right reason, praising the one who saves us, it's OK.

What are the strobe tuners some of you are talking about? I have been using a Korg DTR-2 in my rack for 8 years or so and have been happy with it. Are you saying these strobe tuners can "Listen" to all strings at once, and show what's in/out? That would be way cool....

Thanks for your input,
Alan
  #578  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:26 PM
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So what kind of gear does everyone use for praise and worship? Personally, I'm using a Rickenbacker 4003 strung with D'addario chromes with an Ampeg BA115 and vintage morley power wah boost and Big Muff (I don't use the muff very often haha)
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  #579  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca View Post

I was more concerned about the idea that +/- 5 cents was getting out there as an accepted standard of accuracy.
Yeah, this is complete bunk. Take a $5,000 acoustic and tune each string to somewhere in the +/-5 cent range, and you'll be tempted to use that guitar as firewood.
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  #580  
Old 12-15-2012, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecRob View Post
So what kind of gear does everyone use for praise and worship? Personally, I'm using a Rickenbacker 4003 strung with D'addario chromes with an Ampeg BA115 and vintage morley power wah boost and Big Muff (I don't use the muff very often haha)
I think there's as much variety in this thread as you'll find anywhere! I'm currently rocking a Squier P Special but very soon I'll have a 5-string ACG Graft Finn (PJ pickups). Then I'm into my guitar pedalboard:
Planet Waves true-strobe tuner
Boss OD3 overdrive (used on a couple of songs)
Dunlop Crybaby wah (never used intentionally for bass!)
Boss OC3 octave (nice on the high notes)
Danelectro tremolo pedal (occasional use for a bit of wobble)
Boss DD20 delay (not used for bass yet)

Then direct, no amp. If I wasn't already a guitarist I'd probably only have a tuner, but I like the option of adding a little FX flavour to specific parts.
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