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  #61  
Old 11-19-2012, 04:06 PM
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I've got the extra challenge of vocals to add to playing bass this week.

Setlist:
Saviour of the World (Worship Central)
Cornerstone (Hillsong)
Open Heaven (Audacious) - a new one for us
The Lord Is My Rock (Elevation)

The evening could be... interesting. Playing at a multi-church youth meeting in another church hall. Exact PA setup unknown. Given that I own neither an amp or a DI box I'm trying to establish if some method of amplification will be available!
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  #62  
Old 11-19-2012, 04:13 PM
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In other news, I'm inching closer to having 5 strings again.

Mine's the one with the black limba top (middle in the last picture).
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  #63  
Old 11-19-2012, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoVeryTired View Post
The evening could be... interesting. Playing at a multi-church youth meeting in another church hall. Exact PA setup unknown. Given that I own neither an amp or a DI box I'm trying to establish if some method of amplification will be available!
You have got to get yourself a good tube DI box bro. You won't ever have this kind of anxiety ever again. They could hand me a 15W piece of junk amp as my onstage monitor and I
wouldn't care less as long as I had my REDDI going from my bass to the sound desk.
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  #64  
Old 11-19-2012, 06:30 PM
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I found this very helpful when trying to figure out if I needed a DI box and what kind to select (active vs. passive). Interesting that the Radial site rule-of-thumb is a 5:1 ratio on dollars spent on your bass vs. dollars you should spend on your DI for it.

http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/selecting-dis.php
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  #65  
Old 11-19-2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjuszyn View Post
I found this very helpful when trying to figure out if I needed a DI box and what kind to select (active vs. passive). Interesting that the Radial site rule-of-thumb is a 5:1 ratio on dollars spent on your bass vs. dollars you should spend on your DI for it.

http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/selecting-dis.php
Yeah that's a good rule of thumb. But if you want ABSOLUTE confidence in having great tone everywhere, you need to spend a bit more and get the best DI you can afford. That's just my opinion, but it works for me.
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  #66  
Old 11-19-2012, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBsoundguy View Post
So i'm learning some new material and one thing that really peeves me is trying to learn a song in a key other than the original. How am I supposed to learn and play along with anything on my own?
At first what I would do is listen to the recording to get a feel for the song and then study the printed music to decide how I wanted to finger it. Once I had that down I would just pretend the note the recording started on was the note the music started on and play the song all the while imagining my hand was at a different place along the neck than it really was. That worked surprisingly well. It is kinda what things like the Nashville system do but of course learning the Nashville system is much better if you have to accommodate key changes on the fly. Our WL makes decisions like that a couple weeks in advance so I don't worry about last minute key changes.

But then I happened to hear about Audacity, the freeware sound editing software. Now I can match any mp3 to any key the sheet music is in. Sure, large frequency shifts make the vocals sound very robotic and the rest of the music can become a bit weird too but the result is very useable. With a little more work you can even modulate an original mp3 that was in a single key to match all the key changes your WL wants to use in the performance.

I'm not sure what our WL uses but many of the mp3s we get have the unmistakeable stigmata of pitch shifted music, even if he does occasionally get the shift wrong by a half step or three. Two of the practice mp3s he gave the choir for the Christmas program have been edited to remove a section in one case and graft two songs together in another. In both cases there is a "kshhhttt" burst of noise at the discontinuity. My mission now is to convince my choir mates to sing one of those songs with the "kshhhttt" instead of the obliterated lyric at the appropriate time as a joke. Ideally in the final full dress rehearsal....

Ken
  #67  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoVeryTired
In other news, I'm inching closer to having 5 strings again.

Mine's the one with the black limba top (middle in the last picture).
Nice lines and finish! Congrats!! Let's have sound file when you get, ok?
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  #68  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by english4bw

First thing I do when my WL or MD chart songs in keys different from the original is to transfer them straight into numeric notation.

Here's an example... we did the song, "Saviour" a few weeks ago in a higher key than the original song. So I just numerically transposed the chart and changed the root note position on the fretboard.



As for practicing along with the original, I just practice the song in the normal key to get to know the song, then switch root position when we rehearse/perform in the different key. Simple as pie.
I like your sheets with the numbers in place if the chord letters. Do you add the m for minor or the rest of the chord designations as well? I started adding numbers on the side of each line on all my sheets I've gone through so far, so most of my sheets are the versions we use and the numbers on the side help when someone changes the Key. I might go back and edit the sheets to have a number version and a letter chorded version for all our regular songs. Idle hands........
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  #69  
Old 11-20-2012, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by english4bw View Post
You have got to get yourself a good tube DI box bro. You won't ever have this kind of anxiety ever again. They could hand me a 15W piece of junk amp as my onstage monitor and I
wouldn't care less as long as I had my REDDI going from my bass to the sound desk.
No anxiety on my part - just establishing whether to even turn up! This is a one-off event and I'm just helping the youth band out - I won't be spending £600+ on the off-chance that it happens again...

If I was playing out often (i.e. more than once in the two or three years I've been playing bass), and if getting paid to do it, I might reconsider.
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  #70  
Old 11-20-2012, 01:50 AM
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Sounds like a few folk have had challenging Sundays! Mine, on the other hand, had a measure of success. The overdrive pedal (BDI21) has proved to be worth every penny/cent. Even though I'm working on "spill" from either the drummer's SRM150 or the FOH mains, I'm managing to hear something to work with now. What was funny though is the sound guy comes and asks me to "turn down" and my response was "turn down what? I am not allowed an amp! It must be you sending the proper level of bass through the system!"

But I also said to the one chap how rotten the sound was at a music conference I was at this weekend. Maybe I shouldn't complain; this was a church with loads of dough - the sound system reflected that - but the "driver" certainly needed a few more hours if training! Yet, is it wrong to have expected brillaint sound at a music conference?

On another note (that's a rotten pun ); I was sharing about what was mentioned at the music conferences (the importance of bass; how it gives something for people to pitch against, etc.) and it was not well received! I suppose this, in a very small way, reflects the Scriptures; some will know the truth and embrace it, while others reject it. I sincerely thank our wonderful Lord for revealing to me what I learned, to spur me on to continue improving the skills He has given me. The results will be heard, one way or another!

M. <><
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Last edited by MissingHighs : 11-20-2012 at 01:52 AM.
  #71  
Old 11-20-2012, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingHighs View Post
Sounds like a few folk have had challenging Sundays! Mine, on the other hand, had a measure of success. The overdrive pedal (BDI21) has proved to be worth every penny/cent. Even though I'm working on "spill" from either the drummer's SRM150 or the FOH mains, I'm managing to hear something to work with now. What was funny though is the sound guy comes and asks me to "turn down" and my response was "turn down what? I am not allowed an amp! It must be you sending the proper level of bass through the system!"

But I also said to the one chap how rotten the sound was at a music conference I was at this weekend. Maybe I shouldn't complain; this was a church with loads of dough - the sound system reflected that - but the "driver" certainly needed a few more hours if training! Yet, is it wrong to have expected brillaint sound at a music conference?

On another note (that's a rotten pun ); I was sharing about what was mentioned at the music conferences (the importance of bass; how it gives something for people to pitch against, etc.) and it was not well received! I suppose this, in a very small way, reflects the Scriptures; some will know the truth and embrace it, while others reject it. I sincerely thank our wonderful Lord for revealing to me what I learned, to spur me on to continue improving the skills He has given me. The results will be heard, one way or another!

M. <><
I think it maybe wasn't well received because of the messenger - of course the bassist will tell people how important the bass is! If the guitarist had said it, there might have been more acceptance...

(Mission Worship?)
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  #72  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingHighs View Post
The overdrive pedal (BDI21) has proved to be worth every penny/cent. Even though I'm working on "spill" from either the drummer's SRM150 or the FOH mains, I'm managing to hear something to work with now. What was funny though is the sound guy comes and asks me to "turn down" and my response was "turn down what? I am not allowed an amp! It must be you sending the proper level of bass through the system!"
I'm known for my attention to providing good monitor mixes. Still, when I'm doing sound at church, I'm pretty ruthless about putting the house mix first- if something goes south right before a service, that channel goes off until I have time to work it out.

Putting myself in the sound guy's shoes, the BDI21 has a significant amount of gain. It's possible that you were overdriving the channel input.

Plus, you've already indicated that the sound crew's skills are limited, and they're under instructions to keep the bass level low in the mix. If I understand your post correctly, you went from a barely audible, clean signal, to fuzz bass that was loud enough to be heard onstage without a monitor, from one Sunday to the next.

I'm thinking that you're lucky they didn't just reach for the mute button.
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Last edited by steve_rolfeca : 11-20-2012 at 05:45 AM.
  #73  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:38 AM
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I have a BDI21 and I think it is a good sounding pedal, however, my complaint is a significant amount of audible 'hiss' that I get when it is on. I still pull it out occasionally while practicing but end up putting it back on the shelf....
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  #74  
Old 11-20-2012, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtb777 View Post
I like your sheets with the numbers in place if the chord letters. Do you add the m for minor or the rest of the chord designations as well? I started adding numbers on the side of each line on all my sheets I've gone through so far, so most of my sheets are the versions we use and the numbers on the side help when someone changes the Key. I might go back and edit the sheets to have a number version and a letter chorded version for all our regular songs. Idle hands........
Ummm... there's not a lot of room for playing "jazz notes" in what we do (mostly Hillsong) and everything is in standard chord progressions (usually) so it's sort of redundant for me to bother writing out min or min7 on the chart. I transpose them specifically for bass, and assume that most bassists would know a standard chord progression if they decide to play more than one note at a time during the changes.

But that might be a dangerous assumption... maybe I'll take your advice and leave the chord type on there too.
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  #75  
Old 11-20-2012, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by english4bw View Post
Ummm... there's not a lot of room for playing "jazz notes" in what we do (mostly Hillsong) and everything is in standard chord progressions (usually) so it's sort of redundant for me to bother writing out min or min7 on the chart. I transpose them specifically for bass, and assume that most bassists would know a standard chord progression if they decide to play more than one note at a time during the changes.

But that might be a dangerous assumption... maybe I'll take your advice and leave the chord type on there too.
If you're only ever playing root-fith then the chord type would be irrelevant, and you're right that for most Hillsong-type music a '6' (for example) is almost always going to be a minor. I think I've seen Nashville numbering done with Roman numerals with minor chords in lower case, e.g.

I ii iii IV V vi etc

I don't tend to write songs out but I think I use years of playing to mentally translate the typical chords from one key to another. On bass it's even easier than guitar as I'm just moving a pattern to a different start point.

We're doing a new song this week which may or may not be in the original key of C - we're going to work out the arrangment on Thursday. In the meantime I'll practice in C knowing that it's a simple matter of relocating to a different spot on the neck if we change. As much as I like a certain amount of order, flexibility is an important attribute in a P&W musician!
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  #76  
Old 11-20-2012, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

I'm known for my attention to providing good monitor mixes. Still, when I'm doing sound at church, I'm pretty ruthless about putting the house mix first- if something goes south right before a service, that channel goes off until I have time to work it out.

Putting myself in the sound guy's shoes, the BDI21 has a significant amount of gain. It's possible that you were overdriving the channel input.

Plus, you've already indicated that the sound crew's skills are limited, and they're under instructions to keep the bass level low in the mix. If I understand your post correctly, you went from a barely audible, clean signal, to fuzz bass that was loud enough to be heard onstage without a monitor, from one Sunday to the next.

I'm thinking that you're lucky they didn't just reach for the mute button.
Hi Steve,
I was very careful to set the "drive", "blend", and "level" knobs such that zero gain was made when tenderly stepping on the pedal; in fact I had it such that the level dropped a tad. The only effect was to add a little 'grit' to the signal. Nothing more.

I would say I went from a clean, barely audible bass to a slightly gritty, but now more audible bass, sufficiently so that it had become possible to hear what I was doing (and that the 'new' tone cut through the mix better).

What I think happened with the sound guy was a slightly overdriven type signal is audible regardless of the level... unless they hit the 'mute' button, of course! Maybe this is what the other guys have loved about the REDDI, they don't need a lot of level yet the bass is clearly audible. Just a thought (oh dear, I feel I have rippled the waters again).

I know the hiss that was referred to, but I only get that if I push the "presence" up. I'm quite happy with that at '0'.

Marc <><
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  #77  
Old 11-21-2012, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjuszyn
I have a BDI21 and I think it is a good sounding pedal, however, my complaint is a significant amount of audible 'hiss' that I get when it is on. I still pull it out occasionally while practicing but end up putting it back on the shelf....
I've not heard any hiss out of mine yet. Maybe something is wrong with it?
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  #78  
Old 11-21-2012, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingHighs View Post
Hi Steve,

I know the hiss that was referred to, but I only get that if I push the "presence" up. I'm quite happy with that at '0'.

Marc <><
I'm wondering if this could be my problem. I tend to run the presence up pretty high. Next time I use it I'll dial it back and see if that helps.
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  #79  
Old 11-21-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjuszyn View Post
I found this very helpful when trying to figure out if I needed a DI box and what kind to select (active vs. passive). Interesting that the Radial site rule-of-thumb is a 5:1 ratio on dollars spent on your bass vs. dollars you should spend on your DI for it.

http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/selecting-dis.php
So, I have about $8k in basses - should I look for a $1.4k DI?

Dan K.
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  #80  
Old 11-21-2012, 01:19 PM
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Who knows, I think Radial's point was that it doesn't make sense to buy a $700 DI if you bought a $200 bass. Honestly I thought their other info on DIs was the most helpful. I broke their 'rule' and bought a $200 DI for my $500 bass. Radial isn't complaining.....
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