pretending to be a "substitute" ??

birdxofxprey · #1 05-29-2008, 05:30 PM

OK - I had a good audition the other night and got asked to return to play "regularly" with a really kickin' band. I asked if that meant that I'm a member of the band, and here's what I was told -

The original bass player had to take some time off because of a home detention situation... The band believes that he won't really get his life together enough to return, but they are close to him as friends and don't want to tell him he's out of the band. So, I'm asked to play regularly "under the guise of a sub" until the other dude just fades away. They told him they were getting a substitute bass player. This arrangement is predicted to last for "a few months."

On the one hand, I can understand not wanting to kick a friend when he's already down - and I don't feel comfortable encouraging anyone to do so. On the other hand, I didn't screw up this guy's life - he did, and I don't think I should be kept in limbo because of his mistakes.

I have serious offers from three other bands, but this one is a dream gig - they're really a fine band and they're the only band that plays the juice I'm really into.

any advice? thanks!

BillMason · #2 05-29-2008, 05:34 PM

Entertain the other bands, and try to do more than one at the same time. It might force the dream band to make a decision.

PS - I agree about Leonard Peltier.

BillyRay · #3 05-29-2008, 05:42 PM

Since this isn't your run-of-the-mill ordinary gig, I'd bear with it. Or at least have a written agreement with the "real" band members specifying my role (actual band member).

It's no fun being a gun for hire due to stability issues (getting your @ss fired if the other guys decide to rejoin after home detention). I'd run with it for a few weeks and then ask that they talk with the old bassist to clear matters up. They need to man up a bit.

Also, how will he "fade away" if he's a friend ?

fdeck · #4 05-29-2008, 05:44 PM

What's in a name? My longest running steady gig was as a "substitute." Enjoy the gig and the band. You could even turn the "substitute" thing into a running joke.

birdxofxprey · #5 05-29-2008, 06:01 PM

thanks for the "sound advice."

i think i'll just hang with it for a few months, and try to do one other band as well, and see where things go.

IanStephenson · #6 05-30-2008, 01:31 AM

Sub's don't pay for the rehersal room... or contribute to the band fund...

They're calling you a sub. Act like one. Turn up, do the job, take the money, enjoy the experience. It's a good band, so playing with them for a few months will be good experience. If you do a good job, then you'll probably get more work out of it even if the other guy does come back.

However you can reasonably limit your emotional/financial investment in the band until they're prepared to recongnise you as a member. If they expect more than sub duties from you then you can just point out it's not your band, and that you don't want to "give the game away".

Ian

DanRJBrasil · #7 05-30-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillMason

Entertain the other bands, and try to do more than one at the same time. It might force the dream band to make a decision.

I agree , that is the best of both ways

DanRJBrasil · #8 05-30-2008, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

Sub's don't pay for the rehersal room... or contribute to the band fund...

good one

**Stumbo** · #9 05-30-2008, 02:50 AM

The "situation" that is expected to last a few months is what? That they will keep telling him you're a "substitute" and then tell him a later date that he's been replaced? OR is it that in a few months the original bass player will return?

If it's the former have them pick a date when they will tell the original bass player that you are his replacement. Just in case he doesn't "fade away".

It seems they're telling the original bass player you're a substitute but you're actually in the band. Get them to put that in writing.

mutedeity · #10 05-30-2008, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

Sub's don't pay for the rehersal room... or contribute to the band fund...

They're calling you a sub. Act like one. Turn up, do the job, take the money, enjoy the experience. It's a good band, so playing with them for a few months will be good experience. If you do a good job, then you'll probably get more work out of it even if the other guy does come back.

However you can reasonably limit your emotional/financial investment in the band until they're prepared to recongnise you as a member. If they expect more than sub duties from you then you can just point out it's not your band, and that you don't want to "give the game away".

Ian

I agree with this completely.

One thing you have to ask yourself, if you are paying for rehearsals and getting less money than you would as a sub is it because this band doesn't know if their other bass player is going to come back or not? If you are paying for rehearsals and getting less I would seriously consider that that is the case, whether they tell you that or not. If they are prepared to be that dishonest with their friend, why would they treat you any differently?

They are trying not to burn bridges either way here, but keep in mind that with the situation as it is, home detention aside, once the other guy is free to do gigs they can boot you any time and in the mean time you are helping them cover costs. I would tell them that under those circumstances you are only going to be a sub until they clear the situation up one way or the other.

Beside that I wouldn't consider it very professional for a band to ask me to pretend to be anything so they can have their cake and eat it too, and I wouldn't think it to be in the interest of my own professionalism to go along with it. Especially if the other bass player figures that that is what is going on and you start getting a bad reputation for being dishonest.

rodl2005 · #11 05-30-2008, 04:37 AM

Do it & others!!! I agree with Mr Peltier also & filled out form!

**Freddels** · #12 05-30-2008, 08:10 AM

As a sub, you're not a member of the band and therefore you don't share in the expenses. You should also quote a minimum fee. How about being paid for rehearsal time too? After all, you're doing them a favor by filling in while their regular bassist is not available. Temp employees usually cost a little more.

CrashClint · #13 05-30-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddels

As a sub, you're not a member of the band and therefore you don't share in the expenses. You should also quote a minimum fee. How about being paid for rehearsal time too? After all, you're doing them a favor by filling in while their regular bassist is not available. Temp employees usually cost a little more.

I can see the band not wanting to bounce a friend when he is down, but this is a business. At my business when we bring in a temp through an agency, it normally cost us 1/3 more in salary of what we would pay a regular employee.

I have to agree with Freddels. By no means should you pay any band expenses until you are a fully vested member of the band and you should be paid for rehearsel time.

Now it comes down to sacrafice, you said this was a Dream Gig. Is it worth dealing with the current conditions even though the other bassist could come back? And will playing with this band increase your exposure to other talented bands if this situation does not work out? You need to take this into consideration.

jgroh · #14 05-30-2008, 01:01 PM

Almost every band I have been in has lead me to bigger and better things. If they are a great band, they hopefully pull in a good crowd and look at this opportunity to get some good exposure at the very least. I whole heartily agree with telling them up front that you are not paying anything into the band for any expenses and expect to be paid X amount for gigs (as much as I would like to agree with being paid for practices, it aint going to happen. What bands do you know that can pay some guy to come rehearse? None that I have ever known)

QORC · #15 05-30-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdxofxprey

OK - I had a good audition the other night and got asked to return to play "regularly" with a really kickin' band. I asked if that meant that I'm a member of the band, and here's what I was told -

The original bass player had to take some time off because of a home detention situation... The band believes that he won't really get his life together enough to return, but they are close to him as friends and don't want to tell him he's out of the band. So, I'm asked to play regularly "under the guise of a sub" until the other dude just fades away. They told him they were getting a substitute bass player. This arrangement is predicted to last for "a few months."

On the one hand, I can understand not wanting to kick a friend when he's already down - and I don't feel comfortable encouraging anyone to do so. On the other hand, I didn't screw up this guy's life - he did, and I don't think I should be kept in limbo because of his mistakes.

I have serious offers from three other bands, but this one is a dream gig - they're really a fine band and they're the only band that plays the juice I'm really into.

any advice? thanks!

interesting avatar you are using - it's the shoulder patch of the 45th Division - a famous unit from WWII.

birdxofxprey · #16 05-30-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QORC

interesting avatar you are using - it's the shoulder patch of the 45th Division - a famous unit from WWII.

that's very interesting, i didn't realize that at all. i change avatars once in a while and the current one was posted in several places online.

do you think i should change it? i don't want to be disrespectful by misusing a symbol that is significant to another group (i'm not a veteran).

Nick Kay · #17 05-30-2008, 07:50 PM

Unfortunately, this business is, well, a business. If they want to call you a sub, they had better treat you like one. That is, you get payed your rate plus any rehearsal time they want you for, and you have no obligation to contribute to band funds. Get it down in writing so they can't screw you down the road when they still owe you for rehearsal time and the old bassist decides to come back.

On the other hand, if they want you as a full-fledged member, you should also be treated as such. That includes not being pushed off the ship as soon as the old bassist gets his life back together, and some degree of creative control.

fdeck · #18 05-30-2008, 08:59 PM

Amusingly, there have been times when I have worked as a "substitute" and made more than the band.

Also, I would not sweat the details of asking for special compensation. For all intents and purposes, you will be a member of the band, just a potentially temporary one. But bands are temporary anyway.

Just go and play, make sure they treat you fairly, don't make any big investments, learn what you can to improve your craft and have fun.