Re-pay for promo money?

[invader3k]

OK...maybe some of you remember that band I was in with the two female singers. Anyway, I ended up _finally_ quitting last week. The last show we did was disorganized and went badly, and the keyboard player (who I enjoyed working with) quit after the show. We had done a total of about 7 shows (well, three were "live" practices in a bar), and had made zero real progress. The two singers still didn't have the material down, etc.

The band leader/guitarist had shown no motivation to keep driving the project forward, basically expecting everyone else to get stuff done, which is not what I had signed on for at all. Plus, he is currently unemployed and living with his daughter, so he has plenty of time on his hands, where as myself and the drummer both run our own businesses, etc.

I finally decided that since it had been almost a month since our last show, and we hadn't even had one practice (plus no practice space to use, anyway), it was time for me to move on. Anyway, last night the drummer calls me and says the guitarist wants us to repay him for "the $1000 spent on promo for the next show." Now, we did have a show booked for next Saturday, but I didn't see any way in hell we were going to do it, since we didn't have a keyboard player (which was necessary for a lot of our songs), both singers still sucked and they were talking about kicking one out anyway...and we hadn't practiced once since the last show, which as I said, was very subpar.

Anyway, I'm not planning on paying him back for anything, since I don't see how what probably amounts to a few flyers costs "$1000.00." At the very least, I'll demand receipts and invoices, and then probably laugh it off anyway. This is a band I've gotten paid a total of 30 bucks for, after numerous practices where I drove almost 40 minutes both ways (and we were doing two practices a week for quite a while), and seven stage shows.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot to add that they finally thought they had found a practice space early last week, but it would have required me to drive over two hours ONE WAY to get there, to play a bunch of songs I already know like the back of my hand, but the two "singers" were still botching. I told them "no thanks", on that one...

What do you all think?

[Joe Nerve]

If you never agreed to splitting the promo money and didn't even know he was going to do it, well - Judge Judy would laugh in the guys face. I'm not sure why it would even be an issue for you. I'd simply say, "Hey. I never agreed to that and didn't even know you were doing it."

If you did, on the other hand, ever agree in any way and are just pissed because things aren't going the way you'd like or planned - then there's no reason it shouldn't be your responsibility. But I'd definitely ask for reciepts.

[lonote]

You've got to be kidding! What a chicken$hit, having somebody else ask you for money you don't owe. When he approaches you directly, tell him no. DO NOT ENGAGE IN 3RD PARTY NEGOTIONS / DISCUSSIONS AND DO NOT WAFFLE EVEN SLIGHTLY. JUST SAY NO! This loser didn't handle his responsibilities as a band leader and now expects you to (after the fact) foot the bill for his incompetence.

[invader3k]

OK, it gets better...

I returned the drummer's call this morning...and he says that the guitarist told him that the bar is actually threatening to SUE him for canceling the show, and claiming they want $1000.00 to cover the promo.

I would have to say I've never heard of anything like that before. He could be lying, or the bar could really be threatening him, but I do not plan on paying him anything regardless. There was no way we were going to be able to do the show in any competent fashion as the band stood. At the very least, I will demand receipts and invoices before doing anything further. As far as I'm concerned, though, I am pretty much done talking to the guitarist. He's been erratic in the way he handled things, told me some lies and half truths when I was in the band, and this just fits the pattern.

[Eilif]

Was there some kind of contract between the bar and the band? If not, don't worry about it. It sounds like alot of frustrated people are yelling at the wind and trying to get some $.

You're not in the band anymore, and unless you signed some kind of agreement with the bar, none of this is your issue.

It would have been good for you to quit and tell the band that you were out earlier so they could cancel the gig, or get a new bassist, but you can chalk that up for "next time". Either way ignore these jokers.

Oh yeah, if any of your gear is at a shared practice space, I would get your hands on it quick.

[Joe Nerve]

Originally Posted by Eilif

Was there some kind of contract between the bar and the band? If not, don't worry about it. It sounds like alot of frustrated people are yelling at the wind and trying to get some $.

You're not in the band anymore, and unless you signed some kind of agreement with the bar, none of this is your issue.

It would have been good for you to quit and tell the band that you were out earlier so they could cancel the gig, or get a new bassist, but you can chalk that up for "next time". Either way ignore these jokers.

Oh yeah, if any of your gear is at a shared practice space, I would get your hands on it quick.

perfect.

[Clank]

I think you're right.

[paganjack]

yeah the figure of $1000 seems especially arbitrary. I would basically tell them that you had nothing to do with it. If they get really demanding you can ask to see some receipts. I don't see why a bar would spend a grand promoting a band that is as terrible as you say...

[IanStephenson]

Worst case - get all the receipts, and challenge every single one. Chances are they can't prove more than a $100 printing costs. Then split it 7 ways, and see how hard they chase you for $15.

But like everyone else say - the venue probaly doesn't have a contract with anyone, and if they do it's with the leader, not you, so you're not exactly in a difficult situation.

[Vakmere]

That $1000 could have been better spent on music lessons.......

[invader3k]

Originally Posted by Eilif

Was there some kind of contract between the bar and the band? If not, don't worry about it. It sounds like alot of frustrated people are yelling at the wind and trying to get some $.

You're not in the band anymore, and unless you signed some kind of agreement with the bar, none of this is your issue.

It would have been good for you to quit and tell the band that you were out earlier so they could cancel the gig, or get a new bassist, but you can chalk that up for "next time". Either way ignore these jokers.

Oh yeah, if any of your gear is at a shared practice space, I would get your hands on it quick.

I don't know if the guitarist had signed anything with them, but I sure didn't sign anything. I agree that a lot of people are just frustrated at this point, but it's not my problem. I see quitting the band as removing myself from all the frustration I've put up with over the past seven or so months.

I didn't quit earlier because I didn't want to leave them high and dry. But, after the keyboard player quit, I really saw the writing on the wall...that coupled with the lack of a practice space, or any practicing at all, really finally made me say, "Enough is enough."

As far as gear...I was always smart enough to haul my own gear. The guitarist would sometimes tell me "You should put your rig on the truck with everyone else's stuff." Something like this happening, in the back of my mind, made me not do that. Glad I stuck to that.

Anyway, I agree that the dollar figure seems arbitrary, and of course, suspicious. I've never heard of any bars in this area spending that much to promote a band. Usually the "promotion" is a few flyers and maybe a small blurb ad in the local paper or bar rag.

[VroomVroom]

Look, just do the right thing and pay the $1,000. This poor guy has been forced to struggle with flaky rhythm section folks for long enough. Heck, you may consider throwing in an extra Benjamin or two for his stress level. That poor club owner has been unable to stock up on spirits because of his promotion efforts - having to rush to get bass and keys for this magical ensemble is painful enough, no?

[Stumbo]

I wouldn't ask for receipts. They can print something up to show you.
I suggest stopping all discussions right now.

How did the leader think the band was going to perform w/o the keyboards?
When the keyboard player quit, he broke up the partnership. Since you didn't sign on to a new/different partnership, IMO, you're out of it. Note: I'm not a lawyer.

[Eilif]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

I wouldn't ask for receipts. They can print something up to show you.
I suggest stopping all discussions right now.

Absolutely agree. You (OP) are giving way to much thought to this. Since you didn't sign anything, don't even bother with receipts. Don't even answer questions about this issue. This is one of those "shake the dust from your sandals" (I love biblical metaphors ) and move on situations.

Good Move on the keeping your gear safe.

[markkoelsch]

Originally Posted by invader3k

OK, it gets better...

I returned the drummer's call this morning...and he says that the guitarist told him that the bar is actually threatening to SUE him for canceling the show, and claiming they want $1000.00 to cover the promo.

I would have to say I've never heard of anything like that before. He could be lying, or the bar could really be threatening him, but I do not plan on paying him anything regardless. There was no way we were going to be able to do the show in any competent fashion as the band stood. At the very least, I will demand receipts and invoices before doing anything further. As far as I'm concerned, though, I am pretty much done talking to the guitarist. He's been erratic in the way he handled things, told me some lies and half truths when I was in the band, and this just fits the pattern.

Did you ever sign a contract with the bar? If not, do not worry about it at all. If the guitarist did, then maybe he should worry. Still, I have never heard of anythign like this. What a bunch of garbage.

[kesslari]

The band leader/guitarist had shown no motivation to keep driving the project forward, basically expecting everyone else to get stuff done, which is not what I had signed on for at all. Plus, he is currently unemployed and living with his daughter, so he has plenty of time on his hands, where as myself and the drummer both run our own businesses, etc. ...

...Anyway, last night the drummer calls me and says the guitarist wants us to repay him for "the $1000 spent on promo for the next show." ...

...and he says that the guitarist told him that the bar is actually threatening to SUE him for canceling the show, and claiming they want $1000.00 to cover the promo....

...He's been erratic in the way he handled things, told me some lies and half truths when I was in the band, and this just fits the pattern....

Yes, I do see a pattern here...

Have you ever noticed that "scam" and "scum" share three of four letters?

[lonote]

Ignore the threats and blustering, you don't owe the guitar player anything and you certainly don't owe the bar anything. The guitar player is shooting his best shot knowing full well that you (and the keyboard player) have no legal or moral obligation. He wanted to be the band leader and he ran the ship into the rocks. You would be doing yourself a massive favor by just refusing any communication from this idiot.

[NKUSigEp]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

I wouldn't ask for receipts. They can print something up to show you.
I suggest stopping all discussions right now.

Absolutely WRONG thing to do! Even if they print up some fake receipts, the alleged places the money was spent aren't going to lie about receiving money they never got since they'd have to report it to an accountant and ultimately to the IRS.

You said you weren't a lawyer...you're obviously not a business owner are you? If they keep pressing the OP for money, demand receipts and deny all communication until you have them in your hands. IF they provide them to you, contact the places the money was spent to confirm/deny their validity. If they ARE valid, you probably don't have to pay anything anways since you never signed anything, but then there's the point that the band as a whole signed something...which probably won't hold up in court anyways. And if they ARE NOT valid, they committed fraud which has its own legal ramifications.

[JustDavid]

Counter-offer to do the gig you promised to do. Include that "the gig you promised to do" was to do a competent job. Request he send a .mp3 of 2 songs indicating the singers can do that competent job.

I don't see that you have a problem doing this gig. I see that you have a (very valid) problem being onstage with people who deal you BS &/or don't do their part in the team.

Any chance to get some buddies together to do the gig? Or give the gig to a buddy's band?

[Ric5]

Once a band breaks up it is really hard to get money out of ex-members ...

It seems like evey time I quit a band I leave with them owing me money and I never get it.